Hello, and thank you for joining us.I am Melissa Travers, Director of Community here at BevNET and Notch, and I'm so excited to welcome you to the Nombase Podcast.Be sure to check out nombase.com, the new platform powered by BevNET, where you'll find our partner directory, job board and press release hub, and of course, this very podcast, which brings us all together today.Well, we would like to welcome you back to part two of our brand refresh series.If you haven't checked out part one, please do so with Suite 9C and Dappy.So this is part two of our brand refresh series.In part one, we explored the early stages of collaboration between Suite 9C, an award-winning creative studio known for its work with brands like Lemon Perfect, Celsius, and Body Armor, and Dappy, a fast-rising non-alcoholic functional beverage startup offering mood lifting drinks without the morning after regrets.It's so great to have you all here.Paula Grant, founder of Suite 9C.You're here with your team, Jessy Qussar and Melissa Piombo.We also have Maddie Frank here, the founder of Dappy.It's so great to see you all again.So great to see you too.Well, I know a ton of work has been been done in part one of the series.We talked a little bit about brand identity.We got to understand how you work with color and type and all of the pieces that go into design.And today, I certainly couldn't be more excited because we're going to take a peek at five of the final designs and then find out which of the designs is going to make it right on the can from Maddie of Dappy.So, let's get right into it.Maddie, I would love to hear from you.What were your initial thoughts when the collaboration began?You know, what were your expectations and visions for the brand refresh and how do they, you know, match what you were expecting?Yeah, I mean, overall, I was so excited.As a new brand, I didn't expect that I would be able to partner with a design team as experienced and established as Suite 9C.So I was super excited.For the expectations for the rebrand, I was essentially came into this wanting to reposition what Dappy is.Originally, I positioned Dappy as an alcohol alternative.And in just four months that Dappy was on the market, I got a ton of feedback that people weren't only drinking Dappy during, like, standard alcohol drinking occasions.Many people were drinking it, like, for example, during the day as like a 3 p.m.pick me up.And so with the re-brand, I wanted to position Dappy as more of an anytime drink rather than having a more limited use occasion.So this was a great learning for me, probably something useful for other new and potential founders to consider about the importance of product market fit testing before scaling, because what I originally thought Dappy would be, it's turning out to be very different than what it's turning into.Until you get the product out there in the market, it's almost impossible to know how consumers are going to react and how your core consumer is, so that makes perfect sense.And I'm certainly excited to find out a little bit more about what you learned.Suite 9C team, can you give us a little bit of a recap on the design exploration process?I know I alluded to it in the intro, but can you talk through, you know, what you did for prep, what the process was like itself, and what we're going to see?Yes.So in our last conversation, and everybody should listen to the prior, the first podcast, I think, we really dive into anything like this, which is looking at Dappy, really discerning all the great things that Maddie had come to the table with in her design and why she created the brand and how we're going to enhance that.And then we go out and we really look at the market.And this is a really great space right now because we all came out of Expo West.We saw this non-ALC space exploding.This is a whole new environment and we're asking a lot of questions, so we're trying to find the right way to talk about the brand, the white space.So we do all of that research before we go into the design process.Some of the things that we were concepting around, which you'll see, is it a usage occasion?Do we follow alcohol language?Do we follow soda language?How do we merge those?What is this white space?It's getting more and more confusing in the beverage space.We have non-alcumbucha, mood enhancing, CBD drinks are coming in.There's a plethora of all of these things and how do you disrupt on shelf?And I always, from not only me, but the Suite 9C team wants to infer a lot of visual language because we know people don't read and they need to make a decision in like two seconds, right?So it's kind of like, what are these things that we're going to say on a can in two seconds that gets you to understand what Maddie wants to put out there in the world and to disrupt the category in some way so that you pay attention to her and her product.And that was our goal to disrupt the space.So Maddie gets attention on her new beverage.Paula, you were just talking about how you're seeing more and more brands enter the non-alcoholic space as of course, we are over here at BevNET.And really the rules that we used to use to understand brand identity, category, positioning are really kind of blurring because the non-al category is burgeoning.So again, it'll be interesting to see how this played out with Dappy.I do want to let everybody who's listening know that you should absolutely check the video out on this one because we have some really exciting designs that we are going to screen share in this episode.So if you can go to nombase.com and watch the video version of this, but don't worry if you're just listening, we will talk through everything so that you can hear it if you're just listening.Well, without any further adieu, I can't wait to see five of the final design directions.I know that there were so, so many more than five and narrowing it down to these five was an almost impossible task.Paula, how many designs did you work through in order for us to get to these five?Yeah, there was quite a lot and Maddie was burdened with having to sort through so many different avenues of thinking, but we really do that at Suite 9C so that we understand we've pushed the boundaries in every single direction and you know what's not right and what's right.Sometimes, you have to do that to know.You don't want to leave a client thinking like, oh, well, what if, what if, what if, what if, right?So we explore all the what ifs and then it was up to Maddie to take some of those concepts and throw them on the floor.And that's where we got to and we're showing the five that remained on the table.Maddie, what's your decision fatigue like at this point?Honestly, I had so much fun looking through all the designs.And I think, I mean, to be honest, I had given the Suite 9C team like a very broad idea of what I was looking for with the rebrand because I mean, the truth was that the brand identity has been evolving even as I've been working with the Suite 9C team.And so, I mean, they gave me like every possible avenue that I could have gone under like the umbrella that I gave them.There was a design for that.And it really, it helped me think about the brand identity seeing all the different options.I was like, oh, this fits with what I was thinking, but didn't really know how to articulate.And so it kind of helped further my own thought about the brand identity seeing so many different options.Let's get to it.This first option we have, we really wanted to bring the joy of Dappy to life.One of our original questions to Maddie was, what did Dappy mean?And she told us it meant adaptogens, it also rhymes with happy.So we wanted to bring that to life, play off the smiley face that was in her old logo, and make that a really fun, ownable mark and just bring vibrancy to the shelf set with the bold text on this one and that almost spray paint tag on top of it.So for those of you that cannot see, this is a can with a lot of typography in the background that explains what the product is, and it's almost as if somebody came along and spray painted a Dappy tag.It's very fashiony and you might want to wear it on a shirt, which is always, if you can create a logo that you want to wear on a shirt, it's like, yes, let's do that.I was going to say the merch situation for this one looks very promising.Yes.You can definitely see how it stands out on shelf but still plays into a lot of the different category queues that are already happening.For each of these options, I think we talked about this last podcast, we give a little bit of a social exploration, so that's what we have here.For this one, we wanted to try and own a color and bring a new occasion, so we kind of had a lot of fun thinking about what Dappy hour could be, and take it away from only like a nighttime alcohol situation to a daytime day drinking, all occasion, like a lighter, just a lighter in general feeling, and owning yellow as the color across the brand, and having little pops of flavor colors instead.I also think one of the things that we were exploring, and this concept was the first one to do it, is flavor names and actually really calling out, creating a new flavor name instead of it just being a yuzu citrus.We kind of got into one of the flavors has chili in it, and we were thinking that people might not want to drink chili, but saying slightly spicy citrus is interesting.So we're exploring also ownable flavor names and what would resonate with a consumer.So not only was this exploration about design, it's how we talk about flavor and everything else.Paula, can you explain what you mean by ownable flavor?So we were exploring ownable flavors, which instead of just calling it, it was a tangerine, grapefruit, jalapeno.That's just a literal explanation of what it is, but saying slightly spicy citrus or adding the cool one, the spicy one.As we went through our presentation, we were trying to give names that Maddie can own.It wasn't just the ingredient, but the flavor name and that gives the brand a certain appeal as well because then you can have your own flavor name that no one else has.Then it becomes ownable and it's only yours.This one is just a whole bunch of color and a lot of interesting shapes and text playing around.We had a lot of information to convey with the can, so we thought this one really did that in a fun and interesting way by working in all the claims and benefits into the art itself.This one also really leans into a lot of very ornate and intricate alcohol language, but in a much more fun and fresh way.This one to me almost looks like the marquee, a very colorful marquee of a movie theater.There are really bright colors.The typography, again, it's reminiscent of a certain era, and it really does pop right off the shelf.I see that we're labeling this as a social elixir.Maddie, could you remind us how you were calling Dappy's product before this process?Yeah, so what's currently on the can, and I'll hold it up here, it says kind of in smaller vertical writing, booze-free functional drink, which the original idea for Dappy was more of an alcohol alternative, so I wanted to call out the booze-free, but it's a bit more vague in high level, like what is functional?A lot of consumers don't know what that is.If it doesn't have booze in it, what does it have?So I think there's some opportunity to make it a bit more concise.Okay, this one has the can showing through on the bottom, which we played with in a bunch of different options.Showing the can itself, so having a shorter label or a more unique label shape, is something that really helps with standout, and we've been seeing brands like Gia are doing this, just to give a little more standout on shelf and have a more unique labeling situation.This is also very reminiscent of some retro craft beer language that we're playing with, and again, just trying to bring the colorful, more day drinking vibe to life.And here I see that we are calling Dappy an Adaptogen Enhanced Beverage.Yeah, we've mixed up a lot of the different names just to give Maddie all those options.There was some practical reasons, we needed to find a new name, but we also wanted to have fun exploring what the possibilities could be, and also what the words mean to different people.Tonic, elixir, drink.Sometimes they're saying something, but they're not saying anything at the same time.So we want to make sure that it's hitting with consumers the way we want it to.What Suite 9C is trying to do is give Maddie an idea of the world and the environment in which she's trying to create.So we were just talking about the can design, showing some of the can, but it was also really vibrant and using neon colors.And so we would suggest then, everything pops off that can.If we go into the social environment, it would be neon colors and ultra saturated photography, really cool tag lines, and there was some illustrative elements that went onto the back, and almost technology-based typography with something friendly.That's the other thing that I love doing is merging worlds a little bit.So this is kind of like, we're talking about craft beer, printing on cans, and technology, and then really bright color systems that feel really happy and refreshing.And we throw that all into one concept.And you can see, if anyone's watching, there's a picture on the lower part of this grid of just somebody smiling.And that's the way that we want somebody to feel when they would drink a Dappy.But we're putting this all into the concept base so Maddie can understand what her world is going to feel like when she's looking not just at a can design, but she's going to be creating an environment and a vibe.I love that you're sharing these social pages.The brand obviously needs to live in so many different places.The shelf is one, but social media, of course, is another.And seeing how with each iteration, that social grid changes is so interesting in this one that I see it's labeled as sleek and subtle fun.And that's exactly what it looks like.There are bright colors.You see folks kind of doing a cheers with the cans.Even that there's a woman wearing these like hip glasses and laughing in the lower row.And even that sort of speaks to a certain demographic, a certain occasion and a certain kind of consumer that's all very strategic.Yeah.And to Paula's point earlier, yes, we're creating a design for a can and a product, but it's not just a can or a product.It's a whole brand.And in doing this really, we're creating and showing Maddie what the world around each design is and how we see it.So it kind of helps explain the design, but also help her envision how that will live in the world.And just to give some inspiration there around the energy, the vibe, and all the different worlds.And that's shown through social in such a great way.But yeah, this is website, this is merch, this is how you show up in an event.You know, it all really plays through all of those various activations too.This even sort of gives you a roadmap for an event.There's so much here than just the design on the can.It really is a roadmap for how to approach all of the pieces of work that you need to do in order to build a brand.Well, that's it, Melissa.I mean, we've, Jessy and I, we were, and Melissa, we were, we built brands from like nothing to selling, right?You see behind you, there's like core water.And when we're creating something, we're thinking about not just the can design today, but the world that Maddie's going to have to live in as an entrepreneur.I often say this is a bit of a therapeutic process for young entrepreneurs of where do they want to live?What do they want their world to feel like?What events do they want to show up at?In the world of liquid death, that guy wanted to show up at certain events, right?One of the interesting things, Maddie, that you were saying is, I don't want to just be this drink.I might be at a WeWork space, right?I might want to be a little bit more professional.I might want to, so I think where you live in this Instagram page and what events you show up at and the person that you're targeting and who you want to talk to is an entrepreneur.Who do you want to surround yourself with, right?Like that's your choice.That's who you, that's your, this is your, you're gonna sink yourself into this thing for the next five, 10 years, whatever, years of your life.What do you want that to feel like?So I think that you can get at flavor in a lot of different ways.We can always talk about color is flavor, showing the actual color of the liquid is flavor.But flavor definitely is something that people are looking for.In my experience, showing the actual fruit really does help people understand what they're getting.It just immediately kind of like gets people, oh, I see citrus or, you know, it's very easy thing to communicate flavor.I mean, we all know in the beverage business that it's not just what it does, it's how it tastes, right?So the tastiness, however you do that, whether you show, you don't have to show a fruit on everything, but maybe it's color, maybe it's, you know, you can speak to it.You want to infer that it tastes great and get people in to want to taste it.And I see we're calling this version a mood lifting tonic and also calling out the non-alcoholic piece.The black typography, to me, is a little bit reminiscent more of the alcohol world and how Dappy was positioned before.So I see we're calling out non-alcoholic on the front.On our mood board, there's a little smiley face and it's drink Dappy, be happy.And as for whoever is listening, you should watch, because on these little mood boards, there's a lot of marketing statements that are happening.And it's again, it's not just social, it's like how do you, what little tag lines we can come up with that can be used across the board and that Maddie can own for herself and really make it mark.Yeah, for all these designs, I think what may have been missing from the original packaging was just the feeling of happiness and joy that you're supposed to get from drinking a Dappy.It was a little bit dark, it was very moody, and we really wanted to make all these new designs colorful and uplifting and just fun in some way so that you evoke the feeling just by looking at it before you even get a chance to know what it feels like.The other thing, Jessy and I have been in presentations with other brands and asked, why is it called that?Right, Jessy?And this has happened with us, Maddie, when we've shown the product, like, why is it Dappy?So saying it's Dappy Hour or it's the happy adaptogen drink, for any entrepreneur out there, if you're naming it, give sense to it.Make somebody understand why you named it what you named it.It's so important.It's the easiest thing in the world, but a lot of people overlook that point.Why did you call it that in the first place?So I love that Dappy Hour.We're giving sense to this name.It's a great name, Maddie, but I love that now we're trying to give it a little bit more legs, and people get it.Are you looking to create gut healthy, hydrating beverages without added sugar, Stevia?Learn how Recoop and Wild Orchard are formulating products with Maplesap, a naturally functional base with minerals, trace sweetness, and clean label appeal.Download the free guide today and hear what the forest farmers are doing to bring regenerative ingredients to the beverage world.Download now at tasteradio.com/sap.All right, Maddie, you have to tell us, which one did you decide to go with?Yeah, so the first one, the one that had the Dappy and kind of like the graffiti style writing with the big bold letters, that one was my favorite.It kind of like kept the same vision that I had for Dappy from the beginning, being bold and colorful, appealing to a younger demographic and being like slightly edgy, but kind of met more of the new positioning that I'm creating, where it's more of an anytime drink.It could be in the daytime or in the nighttime.It could be at a WeWork or it could be at a happy hour.And it's just very unique.So Paula was saying, along with every design that they showed me, that they also kind of showed it on a shelf with other similar brands.It was immediately like the most unique brand on the shelf.I haven't seen anything else similar to that.And I think that's kind of what I'm learning is the beverage category.There's so many drinks and every drink is kind of vying for the consumer's attention.It's almost kind of overwhelming.If you look at like a drink, like a cold fridge in a grocery store, there's so many drinks.So I think part of winning is like staying true to your brand identity, but also grabbing attention first.And I think this design really does that.And Maddie is absolutely right and is completely nailing the importance of your presence on shelf.We say this all the time, that can, that product, that is your number one piece of marketing out there.You can have billboards, you can have social media, more people are going to see that can, more people have an opportunity to see it and be exposed to it and walk past it and experience the brand.And it's your like one-to-one, somebody's going to buy it right then and there.So you really do have to grab people's attention, bring them closer to you and jump off that shelf.It's the most important piece of anything that you can invest in, because the most people will see that and that is your best opportunity where you make a sale right there.Maddie, you just alluded to this.Your understanding of Dappy's brand identity seems to have evolved a little bit through this process.Can you talk us through how Dappy's statement of identity changed as you were looking at all these iterations and really thinking about who your consumer is and how the packaging and design needs to mirror that?Yeah.I think at a high level, my vision has stayed the same.Who the target consumer is, like Gen Z and early millennials, the vibe that I want and the themes of the brand being fun and giving moments of happiness and joy, those have all stayed the same.The positioning has changed from not just being for one specific use occasion, but I think is really a good learning.People are drinking it more than just in the one occasion that I thought they would.I've learned from the Suite 9C team that packaging is almost like a language.It communicates certain things to the customer whether they realize it or not.I didn't realize that a lot of my current packaging has a lot of cues that are reminiscent of alcohol, like canned cocktails.I think the new design really reflects the new thinking around Dappy, where it's more of an anytime drink and can be used for so many, it's more versatile, can be used for so many different occasions.So we're so excited that Maddie ended up in this place, and we went through a couple of rounds of mini revisions to get to what hopefully, if you're watching, you will see right now.The current task that we have is what the type should say.We have a visual feel that we're all really happy with, we love our logo, and now it's down to what everybody is wondering about in this industry of how to talk about non-alcoholic.Is it tonic?Is it elixir?Is it a happy adaptogen drink?Should it be zero proof?Should we just talk about the calories?This is what Maddie is exploring, what to call it, how to call it, so that you know that it's not just an alcohol replacement.You can drink it all day, but it's slightly different than just an anytime drink.Right?We might embark on a little bit of testing around this.I think this is something that, as the space is exploding, everybody's gonna be talking about, we talked about, Maddie, you had asked for maybe the use of botanicals, and Jessy and I thought that maybe that is a little too fragrant and flowery in its nature.It feels a little gin-like if you say botanicals.So these words are so important.And again, less is more, right?So do you say elixir or tonic?So we're gonna do a little bit of exploring and research, but this is where we are.She landed on a great concept.We think it's gonna really stand out on shelf, and now we're in the exploration process of what are the exact right words for Maddie to launch the brand, and how the category should be talking about themselves, actually.The can looks fabulous.Maddie, I'm curious to hear from you.So I see we have five cans here.Happy Tonic Sparkling Adaptogen Beverage.On the third one, we see Happy Tonic Sparkling Beverage with Feel Good Adaptogens.The fourth one is the Happy Adaptogen Tonic with Nothing Underneath.And then the third is the Happy Adaptogen Drink.Now, what are you thinking about all these variations?Is there anything that immediately stands out to you understanding what your consumers are looking for?It's a tough question.I don't even know if there's really one right answer.I think having Adaptogen in the name, I think just eliminates some questions because naturally people will say like what's in this?What gives that feeling?And so if you have it in the name, it just makes it more self-explanatory.I think Happy Tonic just kind of rolls off the tongue.I think it's just like fun and shorter and punchier.I think one of the benefits of going through this process while I already have a drink that I'm rebranding is that I can kind of test these in real time.Like I do a lot of sampling events and demoing events at grocery stores and gyms and cafes, things like that.And so sometimes I'll just like test out different names when people come up and want to sample.And so I kind of get real time feedback on what works and what doesn't work.Do you have a favorite?Is there one that you're leaning towards?I think I like Happy Tonic, but then I think there would also need, like you'll see on cans A through C, like there's language underneath that then provides more context.Because Happy Tonic, it's kind of vague what that actually is.So I think there needs to be more explanation if we went that route.Can I say what my favorite one is?Yeah, we want to know your thoughts, too, on this, especially knowing what you know and having such exposure to everything in the category.We would love to know what you think, Melissa, yeah.I love C because I agree Happy Tonic is clear, concise.People immediately understand what they're going to be getting.But then underneath, you tell people, we have sparkling beverage with feel-good adaptogens.They understand that it's sparking.And for those folks who do know what an adaptogen is, then that sort of further drives home the point because some consumers know what adaptogens are.But sometimes I think we think consumers know more than they really do.So I think that's a really great way to reinforce Happy Tonic, which everybody can understand.Jessy, I would love to hear what you think.I agree.Yeah, I like Happy Tonic.I like having Happy in there no matter what.So all of these are great.But I was definitely leaning C to E for the reasons that Paula had mentioned.Botanical seemed very floral to me.I don't know that Elixir was right just because that felt, again, more on the non-ELK side as opposed to more broad.But yeah, I like having the added explanation at the bottom as well.We had talked about this before, what does function mean?Even as we spoke about adaptogens, again, I think people get excited about them but don't totally know what they are.So by saying it's a feel good, I love feel-good adaptogens and drink tonic, things like that, tells you exactly what it is, what you're going to feel.Again, once you're in there, then you can turn the can around and learn a little bit more.But I'm right there with you on C.That's a really important point, turning the can around on some of the previous routes.As we were going through the design process, we actually showed Maddie what this would be on the side panel.We had a lot of feels like this, tastes like that, here's the ingredients in a really clear, concise way.We don't need to say everything on the front panel.We're just trying to grab a consumer and get them to look at us and pick up the can.But as somebody would turn this around, it would be very clear that what are the adaptogens?Here they are.This is how much there are.This is what are they're doing for you.It feels like this.It tastes like that.So as Maddie, as we go through this process, we're only showing front panels right now, but we've done work already on the side to make a consumer comfortable and give them a reason to believe why it's going to make them happy.Yeah.And one more thing also that CE delivers is the word sparkling in there as well.So I think it's super important.Some people don't love carbonation.Some people do.And it also adds to the whole experience, the, you know, and kind of the occasion as well.So it just really elegantly, in very few words, tells you exactly what it is.As I look at this, Ken, it's very clean and communicates a ton of information, not only about brand identity, but about functionality.Suite 9C team, how do you balance creative expression with the functional requirement of a design that will tell a consumer what's inside the can?I can speak to this a little.First off, we had some very specific issues that were kind of easy solves right off the bat.Like the flavor was really low on the can.Paula already spoke earlier about the flavor names themselves being just listed out ingredients as opposed to a fun flavor name.So I think playing with that in a creative way and moving them up on the can, that's just all part of the process of low-hanging fruit.Let's get those easy to solve problems out of the way.We want you to look at the can and we want it to evoke the feeling of Dappy.So using this big text, very in-your-face colors, we're already getting there.I don't think anyone would look at this can and think, oh, this is probably a downer of a drink.I think straight away, you're getting some of that from it.And like you said, the large type on one hand is making it a little bit more energetic, but it's also very clearly communicating what it is.Also what I love about this is that the words are part of the design.It's part of the graphic design.So there's always a struggle and this is why I'm more on the marketing side.I use too many words.It's harder to say what you need to in fewer words than in more words.And you'll see a lot of brands have so much wording on the front.And there's not really a right or wrong answer.But again, when you have a millisecond of a consumer's time on the shelf or on social, you want to be able to infer and get to them the information you want.And you do that with fewer words.And again, like using so few words, but saying so much and saying everything that needs to be said in so few words is really an art.And that's why Suite 9C is amazing.And that's why these designs really work.Because again, you don't really feel inundated with words.It's always like if you're at a party, they always give you that advice of it's not what you say, it's how you make people feel.Right?So if we can do that in design, we win.So you can feel something.You know, that's like a little mantra that we have in here.How did that make you feel?How are we feeling about this?And we're all critical of ourselves, so.And that art of being able to make someone feel something in one and a half seconds is so important because a consumer isn't going to be looking just at this can, trying to figure out whether they want to drink it or not.They're going to be looking at an entire set of beverages.And sometimes we have functional beverages mixed with coffee, energy, kombucha, every sort of beverage if you're in a grab and go cooler.So you're really competing with so many other categories and brands and you really do need to pop off the shelf immediately.And I think you guys have done such a good job with that here and you do, you really do get a feeling.And that's how you quickly narrow down what you're going to pick up out of the shelf in just a second or two.All right, Maddie.Well, this is, I just love it so much and I'm so excited for you.What are your overall rollout plans for this?I know that you alluded to some demos and events and getting feedback for consumers.But what's your overall rollout plan for your new design?Yeah.So I will be staying local in the Bay Area, which is where I live, and really kind of getting a good data story and developing a firm proof of concept that I can then use to expand to California and then nationally.In terms of higher level, not just logistically where a Dappy will be, something that I've learned in just a few months that the current version of Dappy is on the market is that having a go-to-market strategy that relies on selling in retail is really hard because it's so competitive.It gets hard A, to get into grocery stores, and then B, like I mentioned before, there's so many beverages in stores that it's just, there's a lot of competition from other brands.So for this next go-to-market strategy, I'm looking for alternative venues, maybe like cafes, maybe co-working spaces or corporate offices where there's a little bit less competition and I can really get good feedback and traction in areas that aren't as competitive as retail.Not to mention capital-intensive, retail requires so much capital with trade spend and slotting, paying for promotions, all of it.So being able to land yourself into the hotspots in a region and really create some buy-in and excitement before opening up retail stores is such a smart way to go.I love that idea too, because when you think about cafes or things like that, it's generally like the food service channel, there's actually fewer choices.So you're going to stand out and you're going to do really well.People will start to recognize you there and then you can pick and choose the locations you go to that have that cachet, that are maybe the hotter spots and start to appeal to that audience and really draw them in.Again, you start to get that feedback, you'll get great velocities, you'll begin to tell a really great story.I can't tell you how much I respect the fact that you are, to Melissa's point, holding off on going to retail first because you are still just one person in this company, and it is capital and labor intensive.If you falter at retail, if you don't end up in the next rotation, it's very difficult to get back in.That's not a story you want to tell.Knowing thyself is super smart.I really love how intentional you're being about building this and knowing how and where you can do that.Thank you.Jessy is a marketing leader.I'm sure that you've rolled out many, many designs.Is there any other advice that you might have for Maddie on how to roll out the new design strategically?Yeah, I was thinking about this.Obviously, everything will need to refresh.I'm happy, Maddie, to share with you my grid of literally all the things, from business cards and email signatures to PowerPoint templates and in-store POS and all of those things.Your bio on Instagram will change.I think initially, it's smart to show the current design alongside the new design and talk about it that way, as opposed to, sometimes we've done brand refreshes where everything gets wiped clean and it's just the new branding.But you have a lot of fans for your current product and you don't want to alienate them or lose them and you want to make sure that they know that this is the new Dappy or if they see it and look, they'll see that there's been a change.I think that's super important.Yeah, rolling out on social and making a really big deal about it with very little money, you can boost your posts and reach a really nice, very targeted audience to get the new branding out there.And then I also think that, as you're doing this, I'm following you on Instagram.I see you're doing a lot of events, you're doing a lot of demos, and you're having a lot of conversations.I think that capturing people's, like maybe little testimonials and you can stitch those together.That social proof, that word of mouth, where people are talking about your brand as opposed to you talking about your brand or the brand talking about itself, is so important and anything that you can do while you're out there to use that as content and get those reactions again to announce this new brand and the new branding.And honestly, to get people's reaction to it, all of that helps tell that story of the rebrand and really celebrates it in a big way.Paula, we've seen some of the challenges that come with redesigning or designing packaging and brand identity for an evolving brand.It's like so many other things in consumer package goods where it's a chicken or the egg.Do you have the brand identity first and then you can follow with the design?Or do you design first and kind of understand brand identity?How do you balance those two questions when a brand really is maybe trying to figure out who that target consumer is?Okay, so I have a two part answer to this.One is if you are creating a brand and you're going out in the world seeking money and you're creating a PPM or an investor deck, I think getting the design right and the marketing strategy right, right up front is key.Because if you show up with an investor deck looking really buttoned up and like you're knowing what you're doing, you're gonna get money in it.People buy into a concept more than, you could put anything in the bottle almost, and go out and you could sell a concept.So if that's like how you're going out in the world, it's really important to invest in design.On the second hand, given all the brands I've ever worked on in the beverage business, there's knowing that you have to change.It's always going to change.Body armor had 20 rounds of labels.We started as one thing, we moved to another thing, we changed to a sports drink, we moved to another.So having that mentality of I'm going to put myself out in the world, I'm going to learn, I'm going to grow, I'm going to evolve, it's going to change.We have to adapt, right?It's never going to be the thing that you started off with.If you're really talented, it's just not, it's going to change.And so learn, I would say everybody that puts their work out there, their brand, just listen.You know, we're doing it with brands that, we have some owners right now that are, been established for a long time and they're willing to learn and grow and change.And that's courageous and it's what you have to do.So that's my advice.Just know as an entrepreneur, that's what's going to happen anyway.And Paula, again, you've done such a great job with Dappy and it's been such a pleasure to listen to and see this process.Do you have any advice for brands out there on how to work with a design studio to get the very best results?I mean, I can't imagine anybody comes through Suite 9C and doesn't get exactly what they want, but do you have any advice for brands who are navigating this process a little bit more on their own to make sure they're getting exactly what they need?Yeah, I would like to say to all the entrepreneurs out there, it's your own DNA in the brand a little bit.You see yourself in the brand.This is a very kind of cathartic process, and anything that you can do to tell your designers about who you are, what you love, really be honest in yourself, and what you're trying to achieve.I think it's like envision all of that stuff for yourself and give your designer all of it.Hopefully, people will come away from this with a little bit of, maybe giving two options isn't the best thing.Make sure you're looking at it in context.I have clients that will ask for printouts of designs, and wrap them or whatever, and go in the store and sit at there and look at it.I've had clients that have taken designs into a mall and asked people.As an entrepreneur, please look at it in context, and envision yourself and your brand.It's you.If you're passionate about your brand, you're creative, it's all of you, and you're putting it out there.Fantastic lesson, and following so many others.Maddie, you've learned so much through the design process, not just about Dappy, but about branding itself, I'm sure, and some of the things to keep in mind.What advice do you have for other brands who are either undergoing a brand refresh, maybe they're creating their first design, or thinking about it?What have you learned that you like to share with other brands?Something that I've learned that was kind of a tough thing to learn was what you like, you as in founders, potential founders, what you like on your packaging, what you think looks cool, that doesn't mean that it's going to sell well, which is kind of a tough thing to realize.I thought, and I'll hold up my current can where it's one-third of it is black and there's a trippy tie-dye.I thought this looks so cool and I still like how it looks.But for example, I had a friend of mine go to a store in San Francisco to buy a Dappy.The purpose was to buy Dappy, that's why he was going there.He was staring right at the cold fridge where Dappy was sitting and it took him like five minutes to find it.Because it wasn't that well-lit in the store, a third of the can is black.So it's not just about what looks cool, it's about what is going to sell.I think that's why it's important to work with a design team like Suite 9C that really knows the best practices and so you still love your packaging and you still think it looks amazing, but also has all of the elements that are important for actually selling your product.Because at the end of the day, that's what's the most important.Well, it's been such a pleasure to watch this process, Maddie.I know you'll be at BevNET Live.I can't wait to maybe see a printout of the design in person or a mock-up or something like that, and I'm sure you'll be sharing it with other folks there to get some feedback.Maddie, thank you so much for participating and for being so transparent and putting Dappy up on the screen so that everybody else can learn.Maddie Frank, founder of Dappy, thank you so much.And Suite 9C, we couldn't thank you anymore for putting so much work into this redesign.Paula Grant, founder of Suite 9C, and your team, Jessy and Melissa, it's been such an incredible pleasure to watch how you work and to work with you.So thank you so much for everything that you've contributed to the show.For everybody else, thank you for joining the Nombase Podcast.If you haven't already, go over to nombase.com.You can listen to recordings and watch recordings there.We will see you next time.That concludes another episode of the Nombase Podcast.Many thanks to Nate Brescia, our recording engineer, Ryan Galangue, our live stream coordinator, and Josh Pratt, our podcast editor.If you enjoyed the show, please leave us a review and follow us on your listening platform of choice.Want to be part of a live recording?Register at nombase.com/podcast to join the conversation.You can also watch and listen to past episodes on nombase.com, and don't forget to join our Nombase Slack at slack.bevnet.com for company updates, industry networking, and community discussions.See you next time.
