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Welcome to the Community Call Podcast.
I am Melissa Travers, Director of Community here at BevNET & NOSH with my co-host Jackie Brugliera and Mike Schneider.
If you're enjoying the show, and I say this because I really do mean it, I know we say it every time, but if you are enjoying the show, please do follow us and review us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your listening platform of choice, because it really does help with search and we would so much appreciate it.
We'd love to hear from you there.
Also, email us, Instagram us.
Do your thing.
We love to hear from you.
Slack community us.
Yeah, join the Slack community at slack.bevnet.com.
That's right.
And Jackie, what's your Instagram?
My Instagram is Bevnet Jackie.
So slide into DMs.
Bevnet Mike.
I'm Melissa underscore Traverse.
I know we probably need to fix that at some point.
It's just that you spend an awful lot of time.
Saying underscore.
Saying underscore, that's a big piece of your life.
That's why I recommend for years that people just don't do the underscore.
Should I do a colon?
You could do a dot.
Melissa dot Traverse sounds so cool.
Oh, dude, I'm totally gonna change it to Melissa dot Traverse.
Well, I happen to have here the latest edition of BevNET Magazine, and this latte art looks awfully familiar.
Yeah, Mike's famous.
He's published latte art.
Mike, this is your work.
I'm here on the cover.
It's my dream come true.
You know, I feel like that's a big deal.
That's a big celebrity moment.
Are you going to be signing BevNET magazines at Expo West?
What do you think?
I carry a Sharpie with me, Melissa?
He's ready.
Are you saying you want one?
I do.
How much is this gonna cost me though?
I don't want to get in over my head.
I'm a big fan, so it's free for you.
Well, you all can get your copy of a signed BevNET magazine as well.
Just find Mike at Expo West and he'll hook you up.
Guess I better put some in my backpack for the two people that come up.
And multiple Sharpies.
That would be weird if somebody came up and asked me for something, well, asked me for an autograph, because what they usually ask me is, where's Ray?
And can I meet Jackie?
And I'm sure the next most popular question will be, can I meet Melissa?
I'm sure that's going to be third.
Well, this Expo West may be very different for you.
We're excited to hear about how this fame impacts your show.
Well, I want to make a very media worthy declaration and say, stop the presses.
A legendary CPG figure just recently passed away.
And I'd like this intro to be an ode to Pop Tarts.
Bill Post was the person who passed away.
He was the inventor of Pop Tarts.
He died at 96.
Man, after I heard this, I just took a deep, deep dive into Pop Tarts, and I am completely obsessed now.
I'm so curious what you learned and how did the Pop Tarts start?
What is the founding story of this magical creation?
Jackie, buckle your seatbelt.
I'm ready, I knew you were full of info.
I mean, I am just busting at the seams with this.
I just went at this last night.
So you know, Melissa slacked us at like 10 o'clock last night.
She's like, stop the presses, we're doing a surprise banter, and this is it.
The origin story is a tale of daring dew.
So Post had a process of dehydrating food and enclosing it in foil, which was originally meant for dog food.
They adopted it to this toaster pastry.
They announced several months before they were about to go to market.
And then Kellogg's, now Kellenova, then Kellogg's, rushed to develop their own version.
They hired, I know, right?
Dun, dun, dun.
They hired Bill Post, a former Keebler employee, and created their own in just four months.
Now, anyone familiar with the R&D process, especially for something as novel, this was the first thing that folks were using toasters for besides sliced bread.
So this was a real innovation.
And I'm confused.
Was this dog food or not?
This was not dog food, but it did rely on the dog food technology that they had invented.
Yeah, they were originally called Fruit Scones, and then they changed to the name Pop Tart because it was in the 60s, so the pop art movement was going on.
Here's another thing I thought was fascinating.
So originally they were unfrosted, but then they figured out how to add a toaster-resistant frosting.
This was in the 60s.
Can you even imagine how you would figure out how to put a frosting on something, put it in a toaster, and not have it melt?
Unbelievable.
Is it lots of sugar?
Yeah.
It's just like keep pumping the sugar in and then it won't melt.
And then they just dehydrated jelly and put it into the middle.
Is that what's going on there?
Yeah, well, I think that that dehydration process that they referred to for the dog food was applied to the filling and maybe for the frosting too.
So this dog food technology was applied to human food.
So this technology was good enough for dogs first and then we got it.
That is an interesting point, isn't it?
Wouldn't you think we'd figure out the human stuff?
Like NASA, like NASA figures out the astronaut first and then they figure out the general population.
Back in the 60s, apparently POST was focusing on dogs first.
Well, so this is all very confusing because we're talking about POST, which is also a serial brand, a guy named POST, who worked for Keebler and then Kellogg's getting involved.
I mean, this is, there's so much going on here, Melissa.
And guess what?
Bill POST, I had to dig for this one too.
No relation to CW.
POST who founded POST Serials.
I mean, this is like another layer.
It's like a Bermuda Triangle or something.
We need like a history textbook.
I don't know why I'm, this is like maybe the most fascinating thing that I've ever dug into in CPG.
The UK has three skews as well.
The names of the skews they have are Frosted Apple Blast, Frosted Choco-tastic, and Frosted Strawberry Sensation.
Now in the US, we just call them Frosted Blueberry, Frosted Strawberry.
Don't you think it's interesting that the UK, which you'd normally think of as like a stayed sort of population, are going wild with the names?
This is the most excited I've seen you since I said your favorite sentence, let's go to Market Basket.
Yeah, this is my second thing.
This is my second thing is Pop Tarts.
I'm obsessed with Pop Tarts now.
Get, I mean, this, it just keeps coming.
The AI possibilities are endless here.
Yeah.
Jerry Seinfeld is directing a Netflix comedy film, Unfrosted the Pop Tart Story.
It's gonna be released this May supposedly.
It's gonna have Amy Schumer, Bill Burr, Fred Armisen.
So this is the preview to the movie.
You've gotta get on the opening of this.
Yeah, a launch party.
Mm-hmm.
You've gotta get in on the launch party.
Yeah, totally.
You should be like, you know how they have a historical person to check their facts?
You should be that person for the movie.
If there was ever a time to pull press credentials out, I mean, it would be now.
I also played before we hopped on, the Family Guy had a song about Pop Tarts and how good they taste when you put butter on them.
Have you ever put butter on a Pop Tart?
Anyways, I just sung a couple of bars and then I do recommend.
Is it family friendly?
Not exactly.
No, not quite.
Have you ever actually put butter on your Pop Tart?
Is that a thing?
I've done it.
Did I miss out?
What?
If they're not frosted, putting butter on it is a thing.
But if they're frosted, the butter seems a bit excessive.
Jackie, how do you eat your Pop Tarts?
I feel like I'm not the norm.
I don't toast my Pop Tarts.
I don't like them frosted.
And I'll eat them raw, the strawberry ones, of course.
And then I'll eat the center first, because it's not, I don't like it as much, because I'm not a huge sugar fan.
And then I eat the crust.
So I save all the crust pieces, put them to the side.
I'm very particular with my eating.
Mike, this is blowing my mind.
Well, I don't mind if I have the frosted ones first.
So I'll take the unfrosted, and I like them toasted.
And I remember if I was sneaking them as a kid, I would eat them raw, because you get exposed that way.
The smell will, that's the tip-off for mom, and you get grounded.
But she wouldn't know if it was me or one of my two brothers.
So that's when I would eat them raw.
Ooh, that's good pop tart strategy.
When I first heard about this news, I thought, I don't even like pop tarts.
But then I remembered when I used to babysit, there was this one family, I would get home before the kids would get off the bus.
My favorite thing to do when I was babysitting would be to raid the cabinet.
And my mom didn't buy pop tarts, but they had pop tarts.
And I remember being so excited about eating raw pop tarts.
My favorite way, I don't like them toasted.
My favorite way to eat them is to eat all the edges first, because my favorite part is that, and I like them frosted, and I like the frosting with the, actually, Jackie, you and I could be, what's that fairy tale about the one eats the fat and one eats the lean and together we'll eat the pop tart clean.
You need to have a pop tart eating session.
Yeah, his wife could eat no lean.
Yeah, yeah.
I thought you were gonna say I dip it in caviar.
I was really.
I bet that wouldn't be bad either.
And then I like to squish the pop tart so a little bit of the jam comes out the sides.
And then it's crackly on top.
There's no wrong way to eat a pop tart, clearly.
There's no wrong way.
We can talk about this all day.
I know.
Now, luckily, there are better for you versions from brands like Nature's Path, Legendary Foods, Ghetto Gastro.
All those are quite good too, by the way.
I like all the better for you pop tarts.
But you know what I'd love to hear?
Listeners, hop into our Slack channel, slack.bevnet.com.
Introduce yourself with, this is how I eat a pop tart.
And if you include a video to accompany that, that would be amazing.
If you include a video, Mike's gonna mail you a signed BevNET magazine.
How about that?
Sure, why not?
Well, when I think of retailers that might stock pop tarts and better for you pop tarts, I think of the Midwest based grocery retailer, Fresh Thyme.
They do carry both the Nature's Path and the Kelenova version.
Fresh Thyme claims its stake on meeting customers where they are and offering both conventional and natural products.
In this episode of Community Call, I talked to Jonathan Lawrence, VP of Center Store at Fresh Thyme.
He will explain which brands and products have the best opportunity to succeed at Fresh Thyme, what his customers are looking for, and how brands can best pitch this retailer and be successful once they're on shelf.
Please enjoy.
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Today, we're talking to Jonathan Lawrence, VP of Center Store for Fresh Thyme, a retail grocery chain offering natural and organic products with 70 stores in the Midwest.
Fresh Thyme's mission is to improve the way their communities eat by offering fresh and healthy food and amazing values.
Today, we're going to talk about what Fresh Thyme is looking for from their suppliers and how brands can succeed with this retailer.
Jonathan Lawrence, thank you so much for joining us.
It's so great to have you here.
Yeah, you got it.
Thanks for having me.
So VP of Center Store sounds like an awfully important role.
Can you tell us a little bit about what you do over there and what your responsibilities are?
So I get to lead a team of merchants within what we call Center Store.
So it's grocery and natural living.
If we break that down, you got dry grocery, bulk, frozen, beer, wine and spirits, dairy, and then on what we call natural living, which if you're like a Whole Foods follower, it's whole body, but that's vitamins, body care and general merchandise.
So is it mainly perishables in terms of meat, seafood, that kind of thing that don't sort of fall under your purview?
Correct.
So when I talk to someone who's not familiar with the grocery business, when they ask me what I do, I say I manage everything that doesn't die.
So yes, the non-perishable side is under myself and my team.
And then if you think about produce, meat and food service, that's a different segment of the business.
Fresh Thyme's geography is centered in the Midwest region.
There are 70 stores at this time.
Can you tell us how those stores are situated?
You've got Chicago, for example, but then you've got stores in more rural regions.
How do you separate out those stores?
And is there a different classification for, for example, a very busy store in a metropolitan area versus one that's in a more rural area?
So we've taken it down to essentially five regions.
But yeah, we're in 10 states right now.
So we have high-volume stores, which for lack of a better term, we call A-volume stores, all the way to maybe a D-volume store, depending on the location of it.
So we've got stores in urban areas, high population density, a lot of suburban stores, and in neighborhood stores, a lot of college towns.
So we really cross all demographics and geographies.
And you think about the Midwest, which is great because you have more access to different customers.
We have so many emerging brands and so many founders from emerging brands who will be listening to this show.
Do you see the busier stores, the A stores, for example, as launching grounds for new products and kind of like a testing ground to test new concepts?
We do a little bit of both.
High volume stores, sometimes we may do a test or two there, but we really try to do a little bit of everything.
So if we're testing, say, a new concept or a new placement, or a new merchandising strategy, we'll typically either pick one market that has different volume stores, or we may pick different regions in different areas and do a high volume store, a B store, and maybe a C store, just so we can see how is the customer responding, how is it working, do we have the right merchandising behind it?
So that way, when it does roll out to the full chain, we have a good idea and forecast of how it's gonna do.
I've got a few questions about how emerging brands can best pitch and succeed with Fresh Thyme a little bit later.
But just to give us an idea of how Fresh Thyme fits into the retail grocery landscape, who do you see as your primary competition in terms of other retail chains?
So we have this discussion all the time, because when you think about those kind of conventional or those local conventional grocery stores, it's all kind of merged.
So the natural industry used to be like independent health food stores and maybe some larger, some regional chains, and then that was it.
But today, you're going to find natural products everywhere.
So when we think about who we're going to compete against, we have to take that into account.
So for our core customers, it's going to be Whole Foods, right?
So they're a national retailer.
We know we have a very similar assortment to them, and they're definitely a pioneer and a leader out there.
But we also have to take into account the Trader Joe's of the world and what they're doing with Private Label and New and Unique Flavors, Kroger, all the larger conventional stores.
So we really look at everyone, depending on the market and who the players are.
The industry has changed to where it's not just we're looking at if there's an Earth Fair in our region or a vitamin cottage or a vitamin shop or any of those.
You really have to take everyone into account.
To understand the product mix, certainly we need to understand the Fresh Thyme customer.
In terms of your customer demographic, what are their buying habits?
And what are they willing to spend money on?
Hopefully everything we sell.
Now, when we look at our customers, so they tend to lean on a higher income, but where we really try to differentiate ourselves is to be accessible and attainable to our customers.
So we get a lot of that transitional customer where they may just be coming in first for, maybe we got crab legs on sale for $5.99, which we actually do right now, or organic blueberries.
They're starting to kind of get into natural or better for you.
And then they start shopping grocery, they start getting in bulk.
Really the last stop of that metamorphosis is when we really get them into our supplement selection, our clean body care.
So we try to kind of what we call is meet the customers where they're at on their journey to better.
And so we are able to kind of bring in a lot of those customers that are right on the fringe and start to convert them on to natural and organic.
Our core customers are gonna be that customer that is shopping the whole store, does have again that higher income level and knows and looks for the brands that we really pride ourselves on.
You said accessible and attainable are two perceptions of Fresh Thyme.
Does that refer to price?
Is it the products that you're offering?
What are those words describe?
It's the atmosphere, it's the assortment.
So we actually have a little bit of conventional assortment that we brought into our store, not because we're trying to sell conventional product, but because for a lot of people, like we talked about that crossover customer, it's the brands they grew up with.
So if you're walking into one of our stores, and let's say you're looking at deodorant, if I just had Crystal and Tom's and a few others, you as that kind of conventional consumer might not recognize that you're in the deodorant set.
So we're gonna have a few of those products, maybe Dove, maybe something else, so that you kind of understand what you're looking at, that you see something that's relatable to you.
So we have that opportunity to tell you about these products that are better for you and why, because it requires some education typically.
So our assortment kind of reflects that transitional customer from a good, better, best, and then pricing as well.
So we really look at like, you know, where Whole Foods is priced, and we really go after how do we become more aggressive there and create that value for our customers.
So not only is it a more accessible shop, it's warm, it's inviting, it's fun, but the products you're going to see are going to be a mix of what you've grown up with, with that new innovation, with a price that comes with it that is not going to break the bank.
Which is certainly a good thing for folks to know as they're pitching Fresh Thyme.
Are you an EDLP retailer or is it promo driven?
A little bit of both.
We do utilize a weekly flyer, digital ads.
I would say it's a look, you know, EDLP has become a much bigger focus for us than like a high-low ad strategy.
But you still have to have those items to get that customer knowledge to come in, but to shop the whole store.
So to really get them to show what's unique within the different departments.
But it's a blend, I would say, today.
You talked a little bit about your customers and how there's a crossover opportunity.
You've got the conventional products, but then you have products that perhaps your customers aren't used to seeing, they're unfamiliar.
Are there certain categories of products or certain kinds of products that you find your customers are more willing to take a chance on than others?
I would say on the dry grocery space, I think chips and snacks and things of that nature.
Like when I grew up in the natural world, my family and stores, like, grocery didn't taste as good as it does today.
So not only does it have to be healthy and better for you, and hopefully with a great story behind that brand and maybe a mission of what that brand's about, but it's got to taste good.
So there's a lot of great innovation in those categories, like salty snacks, a lot of frozen or all-based meat that really kind of, the taste sensory, the look and the feel of the product is great for them to try.
And then once they actually have that, they see that healthy can taste good.
And that's where we start to transition that customer a little bit, because they feel better.
They feel better about their purchases, about the brands they're connecting themselves with.
So we really try to get them into that early on so that they get a good feel for that natural organic space.
You mentioned, of course, the product not only has to taste good, but having a story behind the product sounds like it's helpful as well as it is for so many retailers.
What are the storytelling opportunities at Fresh Thyme?
Are there marketing opportunities at Point of Sale?
How do brands best navigate that space?
We have a lot of different ways, whether it's we have what we call these Eli codes on our tags, and we're partnering with coming up in the fall with Maryfield, which is a better for you app.
But when you scan our tags, any tags that have a QR code or called an Eli code, you can get information on that product.
So you scan it, you get information on who the brand is.
It's really up to the vendor essentially to tell their story.
We do a lot of digital marketing, a lot of social with our local brands.
We're starting to be able to tell their stories through point of purchase displays and everything else.
So I look at Fresh Thyme as like, if you're thinking about a movie, we're the producer.
We're not the actor or we're not the writer.
We really want to be able to bring these brands that have these great stories to life in our store because that's where our customers come into Fresh Thyme.
And that's what's so great about this natural industry is that there's a purpose behind what they're doing, more than just making a great product.
And so if we can get that out to our customers, then it's a far more rewarding purchase for them in the long run.
Are those scan codes the best way for brands to help customers understand who they are and what they stand for?
Do demos play in?
Do the team members in the stores, is there an opportunity to educate them as well?
Yeah, it's literally everything.
So there's not one thing that absolutely is, you know, you gotta have a lot of tools in your tool chest.
So demos are phenomenal, especially if it's you, the creator of the brand, or someone that is close to it that can tell the story and relate to it.
Because as a customer, I just got to meet the person who created this product, right?
That's a great interaction to have.
Social is phenomenal, whether you're partnering with our social or doing your own social.
Talking to the team members, coming into the stores, creating those relationships, because once you leave that store, now all of a sudden they're able to tell your story.
So when they're talking to a customer, they can talk about the brand.
So what I would encourage every brand to do is really focus on what is within your capabilities and what can you afford.
You can get your brand out there and information and be scrappy about it without spending a ton of money.
You just have to put in the effort.
So we've got a question from Tom Lewis, who has been patiently waiting.
We talked a little bit about the opportunity for new items on the Fresh Thyme shelves.
Tom Lewis wants to know if you accept and or sell farm bill compliant Delta 9 or Delta 8 non-alcoholic beverages.
I believe we're starting to get into that in Minnesota.
In other states, I'm not sure.
So I don't want to get in trouble for this, but we try to push the boundaries when we feel like a product is going to help a customer.
So we were one of the first to bring in CBD, I think in 2017.
And we did it because we saw that there could be a value to those customers, whether it's getting them off opioids or just helping them through pain.
And we knew we had to be a pioneer in that because we saw that it could help people.
And if we feel that way and that strongly, we'll push the envelope a little bit, but we have to be very careful now, especially when it comes to Delta 9 and other products out there.
So we're very active within our communities and the local regulatory boards and everything, kind of understand whether we can or can't do something.
But when we can, we definitely try to push that envelope to bring those new items to our customers.
CBD, that's certainly an interesting one and a category that retailers much larger than Fresh Thyme haven't touched yet.
What have you seen in terms of growth for that category, just based on what you're seeing in your stores?
So when we first brought it in, we were very slow to talk about it.
Like we didn't advertise it.
We had it, one or two brands and then it exploded.
And part of the explosion was because we actually had, in one of our Indiana stores, we had the excise police come in and take our product and we didn't know why.
So we questioned and we had those conversations and they were still trying to navigate the laws and what was legal and not legal.
And I would guess that they were still kind of getting informed on the product.
All of that kind of created more kind of media around it.
And then people started learning about the product and then our sales skyrocketed.
So we had two to three years, just unbelievable growth.
And then whenever that happens, then everyone starts to kind of get into it.
And I couldn't drive by a gas station on the way to our office without seeing a sign that said CBD sold here.
And that's when we knew that we were going to see a drop, not because more people had access to it, but because there wasn't the regulation.
There wasn't the key kind of players involved everywhere.
And I would say over the last couple of years, we've seen pretty big drop, but it's leveled out today.
And it's still a top three or four category for us.
We have a hello from Ashley at Haywell and also from Chutney Punch et al.
saying hello.
Landon wants to know, are they able to send samples and catalogs to, I'm sure he means the buying time.
What is your policy for sending samples into the team to taste and to try?
Innovation doesn't wait for category reviews, but we still have to have category reviews when we think about big, full on, looking at the total set, looking at the space to sales, and what's the strategy behind that category.
So every, almost every retailer is going to have a category review schedule.
And we may not even have some of them set for this year or next year.
Some of them, if it's not a high turning or there's not a ton of innovation, we might look at it every other year.
Those high innovation categories will probably look at one to two times a year.
But what I would say is don't wait on that.
Make sure that you are in front of the category manager during that timeline, absolutely.
But it doesn't hurt for them to know about your product.
It doesn't hurt for them to try your product.
If it's something that there's not an immediate interest in, there's no harm, no foul, right?
But at least we know about that product.
If the chance comes up that it's a new innovation product or something we've been looking for or we really think it's worth cutting in, we can do that.
And it takes a little bit more time and effort, but what I really challenge our team and what they're really great at is they're not sleeping on innovation.
We're not going to tell you, hey, this product is great, but it's going to take eight months before we bring it in.
We don't want to do that.
We want to be first to market when we can.
So what I always say is send the product with the information, and if they follow up with you, great.
If they don't, it just means, hey, you know what, we've got the information, follow up with us during that category view time, and so we can have a deeper conversation.
I'm sure we've got a lot of founders with perked up ears right now, because that is a very fantastic offer.
In order to find the address, is that just right on the website?
Where should folks send samples to?
I don't know if it's on the address, but obviously you can find me on LinkedIn if you're just looking to get some basic information.
But our Fresh Thyme support office is in Downers Grove, Illinois.
And again, it's pretty simple to find.
I think you can probably Google it, but what you would do is, if you don't know the category manager specific to the category where you're sending, I would just say sending to the department and then the address.
Don't bombard them, but I think a good way, if I'm a vendor, I would send them an email, let them know, hey, I just want to get some product in front of you.
This is the category.
Make sure that you know that if you're a unique product, I think one key thing for brands, they need to go to trade shows.
They need to get out to the market because I see a lot of great products from people that are starting brands where they may not know the scope of what's out there.
So what may be new and unique and different to that founder might be something we already have or we've already seen.
So when you're submitting something, think if I have a limited amount of space on my shelf, when I bring your product in, it means I have to take something out.
So what are you bringing to the table that is unique to our customer or filling a need that we don't have?
If you could answer those questions, then it's great, awesome.
That's something that we can really jump on to quickly.
If it's not, then what is your pitch?
What is, why should I give up a relationship that I've already built with a brand that may be doing well for me to bring in your product?
So you have to kind of think if you have limited space, what would you do in that situation?
And then cater that offer to the category manager in a way that they can understand what's unique about your product and what the value offer is.
It's a really important piece of advice.
So not only know what the product mixes at the retailer that you're pitching, but also know that if you're pitching a product that the retailer already has on the shelf, understand what you need the buyer to know to either replace it or create another facing if that's possible.
So that's a really great piece of information.
For brands who are going to apply according to the submission review process, is that a portal?
Is it RangeMe?
What's your preferred method of receiving submissions?
So there's RangeMe and there's a RangeMe link on our website for submitting new items.
If you are partnering with one of our key brokers or that's another great way we've got, whether it's like a Presence or a Costa or a CA Fortune, they have those relationships with our category managers.
So a lot of times that's helpful.
If you don't have like a broker that you're representing with, again, there's RangeMe.
I would say we go to every major trade show that we can to go out and source those brands that maybe don't know how to bring products to us.
Or like, there's a lot of people that have no idea who Fresh Thyme is.
So we don't just assume everyone thinks that they know to submit products to us.
So we really try to go out and source everything we can.
So I would say be active in trade shows.
If you've got the contact information, be nice about it.
Don't flood their email and know that it takes sometimes weeks for us to get back to you.
But we will.
But there's definitely a lot of different ways to get product in front of a category manager at Fresh Thyme.
I can attest to the fact that you and your team are welcoming and receptive of people at trade shows.
I hunted you down in an isle of Expo West, and here we are.
We have a question from Sahitha from Chutney Punch, she wants to know how open are Fresh Thyme's foragers and category managers to taking a meeting that includes a demo?
She has a product that adds flavor, but the best way to kind of understand the product obviously is to taste it.
People may not know, but we almost try everything.
So everything that gets sent our way, it's difficult, especially if we're in the office two days a week.
We're in the office on a Tuesday and Wednesday.
And so we're very limited in those kind of meet, those actual physical meetings that we can take.
And typically it's going to be with a lot of the brands we're already currently working with, or that may have a broker, that there's like a standing meeting to maybe get some new items or during category reviews.
But if you send information, if you send your contact information, if you send product samples, 99 times out of 100, we're trying, we're tasting them.
And we know that just because we may not like something doesn't mean that a customer is not going to like it, but we really have fun to get to see all the new products, try them, talk about them.
So I would say the chance of you coming to the office and doing an actual demo, slim to none.
You sending the product and them trying it, a very good chance.
You stopping them when we're walking through at a trade show to try something, also very good chance.
Great, thanks for that question.
We obviously have a large constituent of beverage producers in our audience.
It's such a tough category though, the space is limited, it's expensive.
What's your philosophy for bringing new beverage items?
It is a very, it's a very big category.
And I think we have a good refrigerated space, but again, not huge.
So again, what's unique about your product, right?
Typically, we'll see trends start to happen very fast in beverage, where one brand may come out with something, whether it's adaptogens or it's nootropic, or you know, very big and functional beverage, but then we'll see a lot of me too right after that, right?
So with beverage, I think it's gonna be important that again, it tastes great, it's got great packaging, and especially now there's functionality to it that our customers are looking for, and that if you're presenting it, you're doing it in a better way than what we have on the shelf, but it's a very expansive category, and it's only growing as people are finding new ways to innovate there.
Can you point to any buying trends that you're seeing in terms of subcategories of beverage?
So do you notice that your customers are looking for the newest and greatest in iced teas or canned coffee, functional beverages?
What are you seeing in your stores?
Functional beverage obviously is huge, right?
Today, you want everything out of that drink that you can.
You want to be caffeinated, or at the same time you want your brain to function better and you want to be hydrated and you want it to taste amazing.
And so, definitely seeing our customers flock all those different categories.
I would say on the flip side of that too, like non-alcoholic beverage is growing, definitely something that we're excited about.
So that category is trending up.
Sparkling beverage, that's a big category for us.
But overall, I'd say the biggest one is that functional beverage space.
Non-alcoholic is obviously huge for us as well.
What are some of the mainstays of non-alcoholic in your stores?
Wine's still kind of tough.
And trust me, like I said, we try them all.
So we tried a lot of the non-alcoholic wines.
They're getting there, but they're not quite there.
What I'm really seeing excited about is kind of the functional beverage, where functional beverage meets non-alcoholic.
The mixes, kind of the making your own kind of at home, non-alcoholic cocktails are big.
I like the kind of the ceremony of it, is what I call it.
So after a long day, you get home.
That's typically where you pour that glass of wine.
Now you can shift over to something where it's a functional beverage, it's still gonna relax you, it's gonna give you those adaptogens, especially if it has that herbaceous kind of taste to it.
Then it kind of gives you what you're looking for from that relaxation standpoint.
And then the non-alcoholic beer category is huge.
And it's fantastic.
I mean, whether it's like an athletic brewing, which is in our top 10 of all beers, a lot of the brands have done such a great job of creating a new category.
And then it's forced the bigger brands to take heart of it and go after that customer in a way that they're not gonna sacrifice taste.
They're not gonna sacrifice the quality to get that non-alcoholic beer.
And I think they've done a really great job of that.
You sound like a person who may enjoy a non-alcoholic beverage once in a while.
What was, if I may be so presumptuous, what was one of the last brands that you tried that you liked?
Well, last night I had a leg brewing beer, which was great.
And then Dessois, which is like the canned one that we recently brought in.
It's Katy Perry's line or she's a part of that.
I really liked it because again, I wanna feel like I'm tasting something.
I don't wanna drink like a margarita without the tequila in it.
I want something different that's gonna give me a different experience and know that I'm drinking something that has something to it.
So I would say like those are two definitely recent ones.
And then I'll try some of the different kind of cocktail ones from time to time too.
We have a question here from Leanne Woods, who wants to know if Fresh Thyme has any near term expansion plans?
And if so, which markets are under consideration?
So nothing immediate.
We're going to remodel 11 more stores next year.
So that will essentially get us complete.
We did a new kind of concept store in St.
Louis two years ago that we call the Foundry, as well as a big remodel.
It was a year and a half, two years ago in our Grand Rapids location.
So we're really still kind of testing what the future of Fresh Thyme is going to look like from a store format standpoint.
But I would say the future of growth is still probably going to be in our own markets.
So you'll look at Chicago, St.
Louis, Minneapolis, Pittsburgh's been great.
So there's still a lot for us to expand with where we're at today already.
I wouldn't see us going into any new states immediately.
We have another question from Yale Linker.
She wants to know if Fresh Thyme is looking to expand on its private label beverages.
If so, let her know if you're looking for a co-packer.
I would say just in general, private label is going to be very big for us next year.
So we started off with a very, very big private label selection, but we got a little bit over our skis because we were not the size we needed to be to have a huge private label assortment.
But the PLMA show is here in Chicago in November.
We'll have a full team there.
We're really looking at our strategy for private label in the next year, what that means and how it coincides with our brand, and then understanding the categories where we have that opportunity.
But definitely a big push for us starting next year and moving forward.
I have a question from somebody who submitted this before the show.
They wanted to know if you could think of a pitch that you've gotten from a brand that really blew you away, if there is something in that pitch that they said or that they did or that they showed you that really made you stop and think, and then eventually brought the product into your stores.
Unfortunately, I don't have all the fun like I used to.
I always said being a category manager was the most fun job I've ever had, but today I get to lead the most amazing team.
So it's a trade-off.
So I don't always get to hear the pitch always.
And if I'm in a meeting, then they tend to talk to me and not to the person they should really be focusing on.
So I try to take a step back.
But one that stands out to me recently, Expo West two years ago, we had a town hall and we weren't sure if anyone was gonna show up.
We thought, hey, we should probably talk about all the changes at Fresh Thyme.
And it blew us away by how many people came to that town hall and we packed the room.
And it was very humbling and intimidating at the same time, but a lot of fun.
And we were taking a few questions towards the end, and I forget his name, but he was with Midday Snack or Midday Bars.
And he said, hey, it's about two o'clock, it's about midday, would you wanna try a bar?
And I was like, are you pitching me right in the middle of this?
I was like, you know what, nice job.
It took us to do that.
And then we ended up, for other reasons too, bringing that brand in.
But I thought, here's someone that is taking advantage of their opportunity to get that product in front of us.
And definitely it still resonates with me today.
That boldness has worked for midday squares in so many different ways.
And yeah, that makes perfect sense.
I'm not surprised to hear you say their name.
The trends that you mentioned in beverage were super interesting.
What are some other ingredient trends that you're seeing right now?
What are your customers interested in?
Is it chlorophyll, hibiscus, algae, anything stick out in your mind?
You know, chlorophyll is still out there.
I think we saw, you know, that's been a product that's been great for a long time, but then TikTok trends definitely catapulted it.
Mushrooms, I think that's no surprise to everyone, functional mushrooms.
But what's great is just all the different delivery systems, which again, if you look at our customer, we talk about that transitional customer.
Your core customer is going to know about mushrooms already and they're going to take supplements and that's their go-to.
When you think about that transitional customer, they're going to be looking for different ways to take that product that is more aligned with their everyday.
So, you know, functional drinks, coffees, you know, they're putting functional mushrooms in everything.
So really excited to see that.
It's not so much ingredients, but like clean facial care has been really great for us.
We've seen a big uptick in like sports nutrition, protein, pre-workout within the supplement area.
So there hasn't been gigantic trends necessarily, as if you think about a macro categories outside of maybe mushrooms and a few others.
But what's really taking off is how brands are connecting through social and influencers, and they're driving demand that way.
Because you don't know what is gonna become the next big thing until it catches you and it's so fast.
So the ones that are doing it quite right, either they're catching lightning in a puddle, and it's the right time, it's the right product, the right place, or others are very smart about how they're putting their marketing and their spend into that social media.
You just mentioned Clean Beauty, and Clean Label is a label that we hear all over the place, but it also seems like that's a bit of a moving target.
What do you see as Clean Label at Fresh Thyme?
What does that mean to your consumers?
I really feel like our customers trust us to put forth the best products out there that we can for them.
But we also have to be considerate that everyone again is in a different place, and Clean could be different to everyone.
So it's tough for us to make a real hard stand on something like that, where we would rather give them options and educate them, and allow them to make that decision.
So Clean Body Care to me, it's going to have those top five no-no items out of them, obviously, we really kind of, we walk that range when it comes to that assortment.
So we're not the retailer that's going to say no to everything.
We're going to be the one that's going to show them what they've grown up with, what's better for them, and then ultimately what we want them to strive towards.
But we have to do it in a way that allows them to make those decisions for themselves with education.
And so we're not going to not carry it, and we're not going to say no, we're going to walk them through it.
Certainly, when we're talking clean label, the idea of USDA organic comes up.
We have a question from Nicholas who wants to know, out of the grocery items that you carry, and he's talking about packaged goods, not produce, out of those items that Fresh Thyme sells, what approximately is the ratio of USDA certified or organic certified products versus conventional?
So again, it's tough when I'm not a category manager within that, but I would say from our assortment, if you take the conventional product, which is probably 5-10 percent, then I would say as far as certified organic within grocery and package is probably going to be 60-70 percent of that assortment.
So still a big driver for sure.
How has inflation affected buying habits in your stores?
It's definitely been tough, right?
Because inflation has affected everyone.
So we've seen, and I think we're seeing this across the board, across all retail, but units per transaction is down.
With inflation, our sale basket, so total basket, is roughly about the same, slightly up.
So it's really driven by inflation.
So the customers are still spending the same amount of money.
It's just going a little bit further.
So we try wherever we can to kind of stretch that, and offer deals like BOGOs, BOGO 50, whatever we can do to kind of help those customers and bring those transactions up.
But it's definitely been tough, especially in our space, because when you think low price or inexpensive, unfortunately, that doesn't go hand in hand with natural and organic.
There's just a price to pay for better.
So a lot of those customers may go to a Walmart and they're going to make sacrifices, not everywhere, but definitely in order to make ends meet.
So I think from the natural organic side of the business, it took a little bit longer for our customer to feel it, because our cost didn't go up as soon as, I think they went up earlier in the conventional markets, but we're definitely feeling it today, but we're doing everything we can to kind of help customers make ends meet.
How does that affect your private label business?
Are you seeing an uptick in customers trading, perhaps a branded product for something private label?
Absolutely.
And we want to have a good balance, right?
We're not trying to just do everything in private label, because the brands have again, the story, the innovation, the marketing behind it.
But in a lot of areas, private label is our entry level, so from a price point.
So we want to always have a better for you product, add a great value to our customer, and then let the brands really innovate and go above and beyond.
So we're already seeing an uptick there, which is obviously driving the need for us to expand into a lot more categories.
One last question in closing.
What's your best advice for the founders of emerging brands and scaling brands in the audience?
As someone who's been doing this for quite a while and someone who sees quite a bit.
I've also been on the vendor side of the startup, which I think has helped me on this side.
And I would say, one, I respect the heck out of you and I applaud you for what you're doing because it's not easy.
But you have to keep driving because success is not going to happen early.
Success is going to happen over time.
You really have to earn your stripes.
So with a lot of the brands, especially with that new innovation, start small and be happy with that.
Start with the independent stores.
There's room for every level of retail in this industry.
Where you really cut your teeth and get great feedback and make great relationships are with those independent retailers.
It's a limited cost to get in.
You can work with them a lot easier.
And again, you can kind of learn the retail side if that's new to you.
Then when you start to get bigger and larger, really make sure that you've got the financing there.
Because with a lot of retailers, whether it's free fill or all the promotions and everything you have to do, it's going to cost a lot of money.
You may not make money for six months to a year, and you have to be prepared for that.
So when you get into a large retailer, it's exciting.
But you also have to make sure that you're prepared for that.
Because the last thing Fresh Thyme, or anyone else quite frankly wants to do is be the retailer that puts you out of business.
Because we want to help you grow, but we have to make sure that you're thinking about it in a sustainable way.
So make sure you're prepared for that.
And there's tons of resources out there between things like this, Naturally Network.
There's lots of people out there that want to see you succeed.
You just have to really look for that availability out there.
And then lastly, we have to say no nine times out of 10.
That's not a fun part of this job.
But if you hear a no, it's a point in time, it's not a forever.
Because if you take that, you learn from that, and you understand why that retailer may have said no, then you can build on that.
You can make your product better.
And then as you build that and you go back and you grip those sales, and let's see you come up in spins, there may be a day that we're asking you to come in, and the tables have turned.
So know that you're gonna hear no way more than you're gonna hear yes.
But again, that's not a forever no.
That's the opportunity to learn how to get better, and then bring it back when the timing's right.
So very well said.
I don't think anyone could have said it better themselves.
Jonathan Lawrence, VP of Center Store and FT.
Fresh Thyme, thank you so much for joining us today.
It was such a pleasure to chat with you.
For everybody else, you can watch a recording of this call at bevnet.com/communitycall.
You can also sign up for future calls there as well.
Hit us up on slack.bevnet.com if you haven't already, and we'll see you next time.
Thanks so much.
That concludes another episode of the Community Call podcast.
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