[00:00:05] Melissa Traverse: Hello, and thank you for joining us. I'm Melissa Traverse, Director of Community here at BevNET and Nosh, and I'm so excited to welcome you to the NonBase podcast. Be sure to check out nonbase.com, our newest platform powered by BevNET, where you'll find a comprehensive partner directory, an AI-powered tool for all your CPG questions, job board, press releases, and of course, this very podcast, which is what's bringing us all together today. Be sure to join the non-based community Slack. It's slack.BevNET.com if you haven't already. That's your go-to hub for all things CPG. And for the rest of this month in March, we have a super stellar lineup of shows. We've got Anouk Gottlieb of Belgian Boys giving us a tell-all on those pink bags from Expo West. We have Ithaca Hummus and Happy Wolf talking about demos, and Fishwife and Pistachio exploring go-to-market retail plans. So again, thank you all so much for joining us on today's non-based podcast. I have the pleasure of chatting with Casey Gaston, executive leader at Whole Foods Market for local and emerging brands, and Molly Santulli, senior associate at Springdale Ventures, a venture capital firm that focuses on CPG. We have just wrapped Expo West 2025, seeing everybody's reactions, and we wanted to hear what some decision makers thought about the show, what caught their eye, any trends that they found particularly interesting, and then especially how brands can follow up.
[00:01:41] Kathi O'Neil: Thank you for having us.
[00:01:42] Melissa Traverse: Casey and Molly, thank you so much for joining us here today. Super fun topic. And, you know, I feel like for this Expo S 2025, I was hearing a little bit more of a question around certain brands would exhibit, whether people were going to attend. I'm just curious to hear from both of you. It was the certainly the first year that we've only had two days. And, you know, when we were getting ready for the show, we were just talking about how hard it was to see everything. I'd love to hear kind of what you thought overall of Expo West with this new format. Casey, I'd love to hear from you first.
[00:02:17] Kathi O'Neil: Yeah, you're right. The two days made everything really jam-packed. The energy this year was also really incredible. I think I've had more fun at Expo this last year than I can remember in the last few years. I think there was just a really kind of cool energy about it. I was super busy between events and trying to walk the floor and all of the suppliers and my network partners that I was trying to meet. It was quick.
[00:02:45] Melissa Traverse: I know that Whole Foods Market typically has one-on-one meetings. Did you guys do that year or did you want to make the most of your two days and kind of see as many exhibits as possible?
[00:02:56] Kathi O'Neil: We tried to do a little bit of a blend of both, where our first day that we were there on Wednesday, we did schedule supplier sessions where we were meeting with some emerging brands Many of them who weren't even exhibiting, but this was like the first show that they were attending, which was a really valuable experience, especially when, you know, we focus so much on those newer brands. And then the second day after we had walked the floor, we did what we were calling golden ticket meetings, where when we saw something really interesting on the floor, we were handing out golden tickets to come and meet us the next morning. And so we found some really cool suppliers that way.
[00:03:30] Melissa Traverse: What a great idea. I did see on LinkedIn some really excited brands showing their golden tickets, so that certainly went over so well. Molly, how about you? I know that this is certainly a show that Springdale Ventures prioritizes based on what your focus is. How did you find the two days of Expo West? Two and a half, I suppose, if you count the Harvest Festival.
[00:03:52] Jacqui Brugliera: I agree with Casey that it was a really fast two days. I think it made me think a lot before about how I was going to plan my days. The way I thought about it beforehand was founders who reached out in advance of the show. I said, I promise I will come by your booth. And because my priority was walking each floor, I really did try to stop by people's booths of founders I either know or who had reached out in advance, but tried not to schedule any meetings during the day. and instead focused on some of the events that were either at night or during the day even. So Whole Foods had a really great event in the morning for women in CPG where I got to talk to a lot of founders and that those sorts of events are really where I spent my quality time with people. But I would say finding time to walk the entire show in two days proved to be very difficult this year.
[00:04:39] Melissa Traverse: I think we can all certainly agree on that. And would you tell our audience a little bit about what your role is at Springdale Ventures and what you're specifically looking for and looking at at the show?
[00:04:52] Jacqui Brugliera: Yeah, sure. So we invest, like you said at the beginning, across CPG. So food, beverage, alcohol, beauty, personal care, supplements, pet, any branded consumer product. And usually brands with $1 to $15 million in revenue. So product market fit, either traction online, maybe some early retail traction where we can see velocities. really excited to scale their brand to the next stage of growth. So that's where our investment comes in. And so at Expo West, obviously, we had a pretty good number of brands there across those categories. And so when we attend shows, we're really focused one on seeing our portfolio companies and getting to see our founders in person, because that's the best part of our job is working closely with those founders. So checking in with them and Talking to brands that we either have met before we might be interested in investing in or just people we've grown to be friends with over the years. And then building our own network to across retailers, brokers, Amazon agencies, like anyone and everyone who's at Expo, other investors that we co-invest with or later stage investors. So really building our network in person, given it's a time where everyone's in the same place. So that's kind of how we approach the show.
[00:06:06] Melissa Traverse: So it sounds like a lot of the outreach and the meetings that you have are with brands that you're already familiar with, whether it's because you're working with them or you've talked to them. Is there any opportunity for a wildcard meeting where, you know, you're walking down an aisle and something catches your eye and you start a new conversation? How much of that is at Expo West? And I know with two days, it's probably even less than it was before.
[00:06:32] Jacqui Brugliera: Yeah, you know, I, I try to be mindful of the founders time at a show because you know a conversation with me might not be as valuable as a conversation with a retailer when this is like truly the only time they get face to face time with the retailer so a lot of times I walk the show and maybe I'll if the booth isn't crowded I'll stop by if I'm interested and try to meet whoever on the team is there. But I take pictures of every booth that I think is cool. And then when I come back, I then reach out to founders directly, because I want to be respectful of kind of how they balance their time at the show. Just given kind of the conversations we have are usually longer than a couple minutes. So I usually try an intro and then and then follow up after on our end if we're really excited. But to your point, I mean, we always are meeting people when we see something cool. So there are a lot of impromptu meetings on our end.
[00:07:18] Melissa Traverse: Well, a little later on in the show, I'm going to ask you exactly what those notable products and brands were. Casey, could we hear from you a little bit? At Whole Foods Market, I know, again, you're having a lot of meetings with existing brands that are already on the shelves. You kind of have those intentional golden tickets. How much opportunity is there for brands that you just kind of walk past, you think are really cool, you start a conversation or you pick up a sample, how much of that is there woven into a very short two days?
[00:07:52] Kathi O'Neil: I think we always try and create some space for that. Since we're on the local and emerging brands team, the thing that we are really prioritizing our time around is the hot product spaces, and the brands that we haven't seen before. So while we're definitely connecting with brands that we're already working with, we're trying to make the space and time to see what is out there and what is new and maybe what we haven't found before. And so the time that we are prioritizing, a lot of it's relationship building. There's events like the Women in CPG Breakfast, I have a lot of partners, whether it's with like BevNET, Naturally Network, Startup CPG, there's countless community partners that we're always meeting with and creating events. And that allows for a lot of quality time because the floor can get so busy. So what we're doing is getting out on the floor, finding the suppliers that are interesting, and then working them into that space that we've saved.
[00:08:47] Melissa Traverse: I know certainly that you're the head of local and emerging brands, but Expo West is a national show. I know I saw Holly Long, who is the NA territory. Do all of the foragers also attend? How many folks that are representative of a particular region, how many of them go to Expo West?
[00:09:08] Kathi O'Neil: Yeah, you're right. Expo West is such a big show and there's so many national players there. And so we really try and be strategic and bring a focused group. So we had a focus group of foragers there, we spent most of the time really focused on emerging brands because the local part is just much more difficult at a show like Expo West. So yeah, you saw Holly, Lisa Tosin was there, Kelly Landrieu with our lead program was there. And so we were more of like a spear going in rather than a net.
[00:09:40] Melissa Traverse: I like that. Very strategic. And are there any particular initiatives that you and your team were communicating and enacting at the show?
[00:09:51] Kathi O'Neil: The two things are our LEAP program. So that's our Local and Emerging Accelerator program. The one that we like to talk about in the industry as much as we can is our early growth cohort. So this is new to Whole Foods Market brands, brands that are early in their CPG or their retail career. And it is an accelerator program that should they be accepted, it's offering mentorship, a tailored curriculum, relationship building across the industry, quality time with merchants and foragers, and that is an application process that is open. Currently it actually closes on March 19th. So highly recommend any brand that is emerging and wants to connect with Whole Foods to get their application into that program. Now, that was a big part of our message. The other part is how we are really investing even more resources into both the local and emerging sides of our business than we have like ever before. We're really refocusing how we work and how we're connecting with suppliers so that we can, that we can do it better. And that was part of the why, why we really were like, this show is about emerging brands and that's what our focus is going to be. And we really just dove in deeper on that side of the business.
[00:11:06] Melissa Traverse: I'm just curious. Are there, are there any specifics you could share around that? Like how you might be working with suppliers differently?
[00:11:12] Kathi O'Neil: Not at this time. I would like to encourage suppliers to stay connected to our supplier portal because we do plan on having some really great program updates rolling through the year. We're focused really right now on that leap early growth. And so we don't want to dilute the waters too much with too many things happening.
[00:11:30] Melissa Traverse: So exciting. And then for those folks who haven't already enrolled, run don't walk because March 19th is coming right up. Where should they go to apply for the LEAP program and the early growth program?
[00:11:44] Kathi O'Neil: They can go to our website, wholefoodsmarket.com to find it. You can also go to LinkedIn to our Whole Foods LinkedIn page and find the link there. Even just Googling Whole Foods Market Leap takes you right to the newest page of the applications.
[00:12:01] Melissa Traverse: Well, I would love to get into some of your specific reactions of the show, Molly and Casey. First, what made some of the standout brands different to you? I mean, I think we've all been to a number of Expo West. Some of us have been to way too many, including me. Um, so, you know, year after year, some things are kind of, you know, similar and routine, and then some things kind of stand out. Is there, is there anything that stood out from this Expo West 2025 that, um, you know, maybe from previous years?
[00:12:36] Jacqui Brugliera: I think to the earlier point on the energy, I felt like it was a very positive, positive show. People were really excited to be there. I think one thing that excited me that I hadn't seen before, and maybe it's just because I'm in a different role now than I was at my prior shows, but the events that were during the show that a lot of brands were hosting around their booths. So I went to a couple of different brand collabs where they hosted an event at a certain time of day where they were giving out product. And I went to one that was a bunch of really early female-founded brands that don't even have booths. I thought that was really interesting in a way for brands to kind of get the brand power of multiple brands and then bring people together on the show floor, which is a little chaotic, but a lot of fun. And then I think the only other thing is still the power of really awesome merch, which is kind of silly, but it does bring people to your booth. And there were a couple of brands that were giving out pretty cool bags or swag of any sort. It gets people talking and I think it just goes to show that brand and taste obviously are, you know, go a long way with a lot of people and a lot of competition on the show floor.
[00:13:43] Melissa Traverse: Did you get a Belgian boys pink tote?
[00:13:47] Jacqui Brugliera: I did not. Um, so I was a little upset about it, but I did come home with Goodall gave out a pretty cool bags of their party on Thursday night and we're investors in, in Goodall. So. I got a big bog bag, which I had actually kind of wanted one. So I felt like I missed with the Belgian boys but got a different cool bag.
[00:14:06] Melissa Traverse: It's a combination of wins and losses at all things like this. How do you find out about those meetups on the floor? Is it the brands that you're already working with? They let you know they're going to do a meetup? Is it on LinkedIn? How do you know when and where those are happening?
[00:14:21] Jacqui Brugliera: Yeah, a lot of it was word of mouth and then founders that I've built relationships with, most of whom are not in our portfolio. And I think kind of goes to show to the earlier conversation on we're really focused on building relationships early. And even if we aren't ready to invest in a brand, you know, making sure that we're top of mind for that first, for that first check, um, for, you know, of that next stage of growth. So founders I met at Fancy Foods or at other shows I've been to who then say, oh, Molly, you should come stop by our booth and have this snack with us. So a lot of it was, yeah, LinkedIn people were sharing, Instagram people were sharing, and yeah, word of mouth from a bunch of brands, which I think goes to the point of the more brands you involve in these kinds of events, the better reach you'll get from the collective networks.
[00:15:05] Melissa Traverse: I don't know if one of those meetups included the one with Benny Yogurt, B-E-N-Y.
[00:15:10] Jacqui Brugliera: Yes, Nate, I did get to sample it.
[00:15:12] Melissa Traverse: It was so good, right?
[00:15:14] SPEAKER_??: Yeah.
[00:15:15] Jacqui Brugliera: I don't think they used my picture, though, because I made a funny face in their post.
[00:15:21] Melissa Traverse: I thought that was actually one of my favorite tastes of the show. I feel like they made it. They were able to get that sort of tang that you typically get from an under-processed yogurt and something that was so smooth and creamy. Casey, how about you? Did you try Benny yogurt or anything else that totally blew your mind?
[00:15:41] Kathi O'Neil: I did not get to Benny's yogurt, but I did get to meet some interesting, some interesting founders. And I was able to go to project potluck. They had a luncheon and they are a group that focuses on elevating, uh, the founder, like minority owned founders. And, um, one of the, you know, it kind of merges into questions that we see about trends, but I've been seeing a lot of like African flavors and Afro Caribbean flavors. And I met our really amazing Ghanaian. entrepreneur who is making traditional sauces and those were some of the tastiest things that I've tasted. I also tried a Vietnamese Caribbean hot sauce. I had never had that fusion in a hot sauce before and so it was really spicy and sweet. It was incredible. I also didn't get the pink puppy bag, but I did get to go to Nielsen IQ's booth and get some good swag. I got some, I love data socks. So I've been sporting those.
[00:16:42] Melissa Traverse: All the nerds of CFEG will want to be wearing those socks. And I feel like it's probably everyone. And Casey, how about you? Are there were there any standouts from the show you mentioned? There are a couple of sort of, you know, globally focused items that you just mentioned and maybe ones that we haven't heard as much about before. But what were some of the other show standouts for you?
[00:17:04] Kathi O'Neil: Yeah. You know, we talk about global flavors a lot. And I think what I saw was new or interesting vehicles for global flavors. So I felt like popcorn was really having a moment. There's a lot of popcorn there. But with the kinds of flavors and profiles that weren't, you know, as traditional as movie theater butter, or even dill pickle like we're beyond dill pickle with, with that now and I saw, you know, really great Indian flavors, and then ice cream as well going back to what you're talking about with Benny I had. Kulfi, which is an Indian ice cream, and it was saffron and rose water, some really cool Indian flavors there. Was that Heritage Kulfi? It was Heritage Kulfi, yes. And that was, yeah, they were so good. And then I also saw, which can be kind of a global flavor, but more, I would say, more of like a An emerging US flavor is like prickly pear or cactus. I saw prickly pear and cactus showing up a lot, whether it was in chips or water. So it was really interesting to see cactus showing up places.
[00:18:10] Melissa Traverse: You know, Prickly, the beverage brand, has been one of Bevinette's favorites for many years now. And it's so nice to see when there's a brand that's doing something that's innovative, maybe sometimes too innovative for the moment, and then to watch the rest of the industry catch up to them like, good culture, cottage cheese. You know, they've been treading water for so long and now they're exploding. So that's always so nice to see.
[00:18:36] Kathi O'Neil: Absolutely. I actually had the chance to have dinner with some of the folks from good culture and just talking about how much cottage cheese has exploded and how much like more that they're intending to do with cottage cheese or how much I just learned so much about cottage cheese. And I am now making eggs and cheesecake and like all kinds of things. at home with cottage cheese.
[00:18:57] Melissa Traverse: You know, I need those nerd socks because I feel like we need a little bit of a segue into cottage cheese. I would like to hear something that you learned about it. I just started making smoothies with it. So in the blender instead of yogurt, putting cottage cheese and protein powder and, you know, whatever liquid. But so you're mixing it with eggs now?
[00:19:16] Kathi O'Neil: Oh, definitely scrambled eggs. And apparently that's nothing new. I'm very far behind on that on that trend. Mixing it into basically using it as like a culinary ingredient in like soups and sauces and pastas too. And it's something that adds a lot of protein and creaminess.
[00:19:33] Melissa Traverse: Molly, how about you? Are you a cottage cheese fan?
[00:19:37] Jacqui Brugliera: I am a huge cottage cheese consumer. It's actually kind of hard to find good culture at the store because it's often out of stock, at least at our grocery stores here. And so, yes, I'm a, I'm a huge fan, but I think on dairy in general that I felt like seeing dairy innovation is like relatively new to Expo West. And this year, there was a lot of really cool, cool innovation. One of the brands that I absolutely love, I actually met the founder at Nosh. In December in Los Angeles is Bezzy, which is a Middle Eastern lavender dip, which is really good, beautiful packaging and really tasty. But yeah, innovation in dairy and milk and yogurt, you know, is relatively interesting and kind of goes with the whole protein thing, obviously, but I think kind of fun to see at the show.
[00:20:26] Kathi O'Neil: Bezzy's like a really great example of something else that we've been seeing is this like really bright graphic packaging. That really stood out. There were brands like Bezzy, pop queen is one that I remember. Yep. Maeve chocolate had some incredible graphic design and their rebrand. And just going into places where you might see some like, you know, natural and organic foods has had this kind of like very, like beige and natural and calling to like, you know, the the places where like natural foods come from to have it like flipped totally on its head with like neon colors and big bold fonts. It was really interesting to see how many New brands we saw just popping like that.
[00:21:07] Melissa Traverse: To your point, Unite Foods always rings a bell in my head when I think of big and colorful. And they also were on top of the trend that you just mentioned where certain food items are vehicles for global flavor. So you mentioned popcorn. They did a nutrition bar that was boba flavored, which I thought was so cool. Molly, I have a question for you. So, you know, we were just talking about dairy and cottage cheese and you were mentioning that you're seeing a lot of innovation in dairy right now. How does an organization like Springdale Ventures decide whether something is just a passing trend or if it's something that's going to stay for the long haul and something that, you know, you might want to invest in?
[00:21:53] Jacqui Brugliera: the existential question I have probably most days. I think what we try to spend the most time on, given how early we invest, is first, the founder. And are they uniquely positioned to build in this category? What do they know, or what skills do they have that give them the ability to stand out and really scale a business? And then the second thing is, besides taste, which is obviously very important in food and beverage specifically, but really brand and are they adding something differential to the category? And I think when we think about categories, we try not to spend a lot of time being like super thesis driven. Like I'm not doing tons of like dairies where we want to invest. I need to find a dairy business, but going to these shows is really helpful to kind of see where people are spending time, what people are talking about after the show. And so I think what we think about, yeah, as founder taste and, to be honest, because we're investors, who is an acquirer that would buy in this space and what have they bought before? So we think a little more long-term just because we're VCs, so we have to think about the outcome. And so certain categories might be wonderful categories to build a business in, but might not be a fit for us as investors. So that's kind of how we think about it.
[00:23:09] Melissa Traverse: Casey, when I think about trends, I certainly think about Whole Foods Market's annual trend report. It's one of the first things that we see every year to kind of get an idea of what Whole Foods Market will be looking for. Because Whole Foods Market could start a brand in one region or maybe even just a few stores, it seems like there's a little more leeway to try out trends. How do you all approach trends and how do you incorporate brands that are exhibiting that trend, not exactly knowing where it'll go? How do you approach that?
[00:23:48] Kathi O'Neil: Like Molly said, it starts with the founder first and what their skill set is, where they're at in their journey. who their resources are so that if they are really great financial, they have really great financial background, then they have a creative team or retail team, or they have retail experience, they have somebody that they're partnering with. So we're really focusing on the founders so that we have a great partner to work with, and their product tastes great. And it's bringing something new and different to a category that we haven't seen yet. All of those things are important that allow us to kind of test and learn so that we can say, maybe we'll start in a few stores and see how it goes. Or They have a strong D to C business. So they know which markets, you know, a hot, hot spot on the map for them. So we can find that market and test there first, or as we're expanding, you know, where to, where to expand to. So there's a lot of options and opportunity there, as long as we've got a founder that is agile and nimble and, you know, smart enough to work with us or have the resources to work with us, has a great product and something that we haven't seen before.
[00:24:51] Melissa Traverse: I asked you both about cottage cheese, and now I have to ask you about protein. I mean, I think that was one of the things we saw on every single corner. I think it was something that we were all expecting to see. I was speaking with a founder who said that she was in a recent buyer meeting, and she has a plant-based snack. It has something like 12 grams of protein naturally, and the buyer said, well, I would really like to see it at 20 grams of protein. But the only way you can do that is to be, you know, sprinkling protein in there. What are your thoughts on that category and that ingredient? Are you are you done? Like are protein pretzels something that you're going to be chasing? Where is protein going to take you? Casey, I'd love to hear from you first.
[00:25:29] Kathi O'Neil: I mean, I'm going to have to go with like taste first. Like people are going to be looking for the protein and there are so many opportunities and options out there. that if you're creating a product that tastes great and is enjoyable and then also has protein, it's almost like the protein comes along with the great product. That I think is going to have more legs than something where it's like, okay, how do I get protein into something? Or how do I create a product around protein? It is a saturated trend now. And so there's, there's a lot of competition and kind of trickiness that comes with that and doing that in a way that's going to resonate with people. And the barrier to entry when it comes to grocery shelves, number one is taste.
[00:26:13] Melissa Traverse: Molly, how about you? Where do you stand on protein?
[00:26:15] Jacqui Brugliera: Yeah. You know, I spend a lot of time thinking about protein, I would say in my daily life, as many of us do. But no, I agree on, on taste. And I think not to talk about Goodall's again, but Goodall's is a great example of a product that tastes really good and has protein. And so now why would. You know, for me, I always say like, well, why would I buy anything else when I have this option that tastes amazing, has an amazing brand behind it and has the added protein? But I think where I'm excited about protein more is on the nutrient density side. And I think about people who are picking between, you know, you go to the grocery store and you have this whole lineup of products you can pick between like, well, what's the best bang for my buck from truly like a dollar standpoint of like, I want to buy something that's going to keep me full and keep me healthy, but also, Why would I eat something that doesn't have protein when there are so many options that do, um, but I agree on taste. I mean, we taste, I tasted a lot of stuff last week that had protein and some things are better than others. Um, but I think the other thing that I think is interesting and cottage cheese and chomps are a great example of this. It's like, it doesn't have to be like their snacks that have added protein, but also just like, yeah, if you eat a simple diet, you could probably get a lot of protein from meat and cheese and dairy and. all of the things that have protein naturally. So finding ways to make it easy for people to get those sources of protein I find really interesting. But I agree, taste is most important. A lot of protein beverages, I didn't try a lot of them. I've had a couple before, but that was probably the only truly new protein thing that I hadn't seen many, many brands in that space. before the show, but most of the protein snacks, I feel like I had seen before. There wasn't anything super new in that space.
[00:28:00] Melissa Traverse: Is there anything that particularly impressed you in the protein beverages in terms of, you know, it could be sugar content, protein content, sometimes there's a little bit of a chalky flavor, so being able to get the right consistency, anything that stood out?
[00:28:13] Jacqui Brugliera: pretty excited about all the clear protein innovation. So that's one area that I think is kind of cool. But I don't think there are any nothing that stood out specifically in the beverage space from the show. But I did have a couple of different egg innovations, which was interesting and protein. So some easy egg Vehicles. Um, so blue hour, I think is the name I tried, which I really liked. And then, um, pizza cupcake launched like a egg breakfast thing, which is pretty good. So definitely, yeah. Some different vehicles, similar to global flavors of like different ways to get your protein in.
[00:28:52] Kathi O'Neil: I had a really delicious, uh, protein with, um, different like boba tea flavors. So there was like an, a matcha and a Thai tea. and they were using that clear protein. So I come from a background of sports nutrition back in the day. And so like clear protein was in sports nutrition for a while. And it's really interesting to see that emerge into like the everyday space.
[00:29:13] Melissa Traverse: Yeah. For clear protein, are you seeing mostly collagen that's interesting? Is it another format? It's a whey protein usually. Amazing. Yeah, I know.
[00:29:24] Kathi O'Neil: I don't know how they do it.
[00:29:26] Melissa Traverse: The magic of clear protein. We'll have to do another show on that. Well, thank you for satisfying my rabbit hole down protein. I would love to hear now a little bit about what you typically aren't looking for and what you're trying to stay away from. So to start that off, Are there any areas at Whole Foods Market that the, you know, the shelves are saturated? You just talked about a hot sauce that sounded delicious. And but hot sauce is one of the categories that as a consumer, I oftentimes think, is there really any more room for hot sauces? Are there any categories that are just like particularly difficult right now?
[00:30:05] Kathi O'Neil: You know, I hesitate to say that because hot sauce is just like the perfect example. The second that I say I really can't see any more hot sauces. I go to a show and I see an incredible Vietnamese Caribbean hot sauce or a Trinidadian hot sauce, sweets of different flavors. And somebody just like blows my mind with like the way that hot sauce can like change a meal again. So it really is like, there's not a whole lot of places where I would say like, no, we're not looking there. I think it's more about when we are out there, who's kind of, who's surprising us in places We know that, you know, there's certain categories like salty snacks where like flavor and trend spins so fast. And so we're kind of like always there. And then outside of that, is there something that like really isn't like, like just like pops up and intrigues us. We like to be surprised.
[00:31:01] Melissa Traverse: Well, certainly I always think of beverages as a really difficult category to get into, but that certainly hasn't stopped any of us. So that makes perfect sense. How about ingredients? We've spent a lot of time talking about seed oils. You know, the super clean folks, they avoid ingredients maybe like maltodextrin, that kind of thing. some binders and stabilizers. Are there any ingredients that you're looking to see if a product doesn't have in your, you're sort of happy about it, like gums, seed oils, that kind of thing? How does that factor in?
[00:31:36] Kathi O'Neil: You know, we're pretty consistently looking at labels and we do know that customers are wanting to see ingredient lists that they do understand, which is where some of those gums and binders and things kind of stick out because they're just like difficult words to, you don't, by looking at it, know exactly where it's coming from. So one of the things that we have seen is like more use of olive oil and avocado oil and some of those more recognizable ingredients. So again, maybe it's not anything about like what we're avoiding, but like how are people bringing ingredients to those labels that are more approachable and more recognizable.
[00:32:14] Melissa Traverse: Are there any gums or stabilizers you're seeing brands use that are more on the natural side but also effective?
[00:32:22] Kathi O'Neil: The Forager brand of plant-based milks, I think they're using baking soda as a stabilizer, which is really interesting. So you get a coffee creamer that is very creamy and doesn't separate because of that ingredient that they're using to keep it together. So I think there's all kinds of ways that'll show up.
[00:32:43] Melissa Traverse: That's, I'm so glad I asked. That was such an excellent answer. Molly, how about you? Are there any particular ingredients or categories that are just a little bit more saturated? I'm sure that a portfolio has to be evenly and strategically balanced. Are there any particular areas that are a little trickier right now? Or are there any ingredients that when you see them on the label, like a seed, I mean, seed oil, everyone's picking on seed oils, but is there anything that you're seeing that gives you pause
[00:33:13] Jacqui Brugliera: Yeah, you know, it's interesting on the category thing to Casey's point, like, we'll be like, there's too many bars in the world. But then I don't ever want to say like, we don't invest in bars, because what if it's like the best founder ever, and they've done something completely unique. And you know, this is the next bar that takes over the world. So we always joke about bars as the example, because it is the example of like, how could we possibly need another one, and then you know, someone might come up with something really cool. So I still want to see the deck and hear from the founder if it is the next big thing. But so yeah, I mean, there are definitely categories where we're like, do we need another one? I think we think about it more like, what are you bringing different, similar to what Casey said, bringing to the category that's unique, and that will make you stand out in turn at the grocery store or online that we haven't seen before. And then on the ingredient thing, I The new consumer and coefficient capital just had their most recent report come out on trends right around Expo and the seed oil, like they did a survey and it was like, how many people actually know about seed oils? And it's still very low. So like in our, in our world, you know, everyone's talking about seed oils, but I think in terms of where it could go, I do think it's an interesting trend to watch. But like I said earlier, we're not. as trend focused, but I think that's one that I always look to see what people are using, because I'm curious, are they thinking about this upswing of people caring about seed oil? So it is something that I look at on brands we're looking to invest in. And then sugar alcohols and binders and everything, we will look and we usually, I always ask founders if they are using a sugar alcohol, say, have you thought about using something different? And I always find it very interesting to hear with their brand and positioning if the reason they're using what they're using is because they know people don't care. And I think that's a pretty valid reason. A lot of founders will say, I've done consumer testing or I've tried reformulating. I get complaints. All of my consumers don't care about sugar alcohols because they value protein content or something else over the ingredients. And I think there's a place in the category for all of those brands as well. Usually, I have it more as a question rather than like a, we refuse to speak to you, but want to see kind of the reasoning behind the formula.
[00:35:25] Melissa Traverse: And are there any interesting ways that brands are eliminating the sugar alcohols and instead using like, is it allulose, monk fruit? Are there any ways?
[00:35:36] Jacqui Brugliera: Yeah, I've seen a lot more allulose recently than stevia and monk fruit. I mean, people are doing combinations of that, I think. What we find most exciting is a founder that really knows their consumer. And so if they say, I'm not going after this consumer because my consumers hate the taste of Stevia, I'm like, that's great. I'm glad you understand who the consumer is. But yeah, Alulus is kind of the only one I've seen recently. And then one interesting one, I think a lot of people are trying to use dates. I think you can tell when it's dates as a sweetener versus, you know, one of the real sugars. But I do think there's a place in the category for people using dates because I think they taste good, but it just definitely doesn't taste like a sugar alcohol. So very different taste profile. Yeah, there's a lot of date and honey as a sweetener. Yeah, date and honey, there was, I felt like a lot more of. Honey Mamas actually launched a protein bar at Expo that I thought tasted really good. And that was a really, yeah, to the point on bars, I was like, this tastes different than a lot of bars I've had. So I really liked it.
[00:36:42] Melissa Traverse: BTR Bar also did a protein version, which I thought was really good. And French Squirrels, the chocolate-covered dates stuffed with almond butter, I swung by that booth a few too many times. They were so, so good.
[00:36:57] Jacqui Brugliera: That's a good sign if you swing back. Going back to a booth is a good sign.
[00:37:01] Melissa Traverse: Yeah, totally. All right. And as we're wrapping up the show, I know that a lot of brands are kind of in the middle of their post-show follow-up. It's a huge investment, even if you're not exhibiting. It's a lot in time, in travel. So everyone wants to make the most out of their show. What are some of the red flags actually both at the show and afterwards? What are some things that brands should maybe keep in mind that wouldn't be as effective both at the show and afterwards? Molly, what do you think?
[00:37:37] Jacqui Brugliera: Yeah, I'll keep it quick because I think Casey has some good ones, but I think that the best follow up for us is, I mean, I, I try to be responsive to email so following sending us an email or filling out a form on our website, we do respond to everyone who fills out our website form and sending your deck and any information you have. I think the hardest thing for us is when people send an email without much context and. it's really helpful if you just send the deck in advance. If you have a deck or any information on how your brand is doing, what you're thinking about in terms of fundraising, if that's why you're reaching out, the more information we have at the beginning, the better. And then we can be most prepared to chat with you. But I think at the show, I think Casey might touch on this a little bit too, but you know, just having a conversation, like the best part about my job is getting to talk to founders. And so we like to be helpful where we can and Keep it conversational and build relationships. But yeah, following up over email is always great for us.
[00:38:31] Melissa Traverse: Anything in the subject line that catches your attention? Oh. If they had a conversation with you, should they put following up on our conversation?
[00:38:42] Jacqui Brugliera: Yeah, following up from Expo if they did talk to me or just heard you on this thing. Something personal is always helpful versus you send it to 30 investors that you met.
[00:38:54] Melissa Traverse: Absolutely. Casey, I think you do have a few good stories.
[00:38:57] Kathi O'Neil: Please take it away. You know, going back to what both Molly and I have talked about, you know, in multiple segments throughout this conversation was really around the opportunity for relationship building and the importance of who the founder is when we're getting to know brands. And that means that like, I'm a person, they're a person, we're two people getting to know each other. So the conversational part is really important. It's difficult to connect to a brand that is giving me a long generic pitch. That's not, you know, necessarily, you know, isn't conversational or isn't tailored to what they know whole foods market to be. And it's also really hard to get, to build a relationship with brands. I've had brands follow me to the restroom. So there's like. a personal boundaries.
[00:39:45] Melissa Traverse: Yes. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay. So you're going into the restroom and the person follows you and then says, like, can we chat? And I mean, how does how does this even happen?
[00:40:00] Kathi O'Neil: They they follow me to the bathroom. They are they, you know, they basically say, can I they kind of just start pitching. They're like, I want to get to know you. I want to talk to you. They start pitching to me in the restroom. And I And that's just such a really personal time. That's just not the way to go about it. So needless to say, I haven't really built a relationship with the brands that have done that with me. I have relationships with the brands who are connecting with me on the floor or finding the time to get to the events. When we're talking about follow-up, I think what's hard too is that this is such a, there's so many brands that we're working with and connecting with that email is actually one of the harder places to follow up in. Um, you know, I have brands that kind of, I have an inbox infinity. Some people get to inbox zero and that's just like day to day, not something I can do. So I don't want brands to get lost there. What I really want them to do is follow up with the, with the resources that we do have. Like our supplier portal is the place to get connected to the decision makers in the business. And that is really where like presentations need to go. Item submissions need to go and that those are being done, not as a, um, Well, what they're doing is they're tailoring those submissions to what they know Whole Foods is and really calling out the things that differentiate them so that it's not, they can be very copy paste submission retailer to retailer to retailer. So what stands out is when we're seeing submissions that come to us where they've obviously put in the time to share through that how their brand resonates with our customers and what they can bring to our shelves.
[00:41:37] Melissa Traverse: Is there a place in that submission that a brand could say, we had a chat with Casey and it was great. Like, is there, is there a place in that submission where they can personalize something that they might normally try to put in an email?
[00:41:49] Kathi O'Neil: I think so. We do have like on our, on our new item slides, some, some place for some romance copy and that romance copy can be, we were excited to meet with you at Expo West and, you know, had great feedback there. Here, you can see how we've taken that feedback and put it into action, things like that. Those spaces do exist. I don't think people take advantage of that often enough. Like it's really creative way of doing it.
[00:42:11] Melissa Traverse: And, and would you mind just reminding everybody where they can find the supplier portal?
[00:42:15] Kathi O'Neil: Yeah, it is grocery, grocery central slash Amazon now is the, is the, um, uh, website since we are, um, you know, we're a company that is embedded in Amazon. And so through their Amazon web services. You can also find it on our wholefoodsmarket.com website, which is a little easier to remember.
[00:42:36] Melissa Traverse: I see a comment here from Maddie Frank. She said that she chose not to go to Expo this year. Her brand, Dappy Adaptogenic Drinks, hey, Dappy, just launched three months ago. So she said this was very helpful. Thank you both. Casey, I have one last question for you. What's the craziest thing that a brand's ever sent you, either in the mail or as follow-up from a show or anything? Have you gotten any flaming bags of, you know, I don't know.
[00:43:05] Kathi O'Neil: I don't think I've had anything that was like, particularly crazy other than in the time in sports nutrition, I would get random Ziploc bags of powder. And that was always, I knew, you know, that I was hoping I could trust a brand and I knew what it was, but I was more worried about anybody who might be opening my mail for me or my packages for me and what they're finding and thinking I'm getting.
[00:43:32] Melissa Traverse: In this era of protein, I think that's very, very solid advice. I cannot thank you enough, Casey Gaston and Molly Santulli. Thank you so much for joining in this Expo West recap. It was so much fun to chat with you both.
[00:43:44] Jacqui Brugliera: You as well. Thanks for having us.
[00:43:47] Melissa Traverse: Always a good time, Melissa. Thank you. Good to see you, Molly. Always a great time. For everybody else, thank you so much for joining. Head over to nonbase.com and we'll see you there.
