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Welcome to the Community Call Podcast.
I am Melissa Travers, Director of Community, here with my co-host Jackie Brugliera and Mike Schneider.
If you're enjoying the show, please follow and review us on Apple Podcasts or your listening platform of choice.
Jackie and Mike, great to see you.
Last week was July 4th.
I feel like now we're sort of solidly into summer.
There are always lots of reasons to celebrate during the summer, but I have a sad confession to make.
I think I have to join you, Mike, in your very serious moderation of alcohol because I think it's a migraine trigger for me.
Oh, no.
Oh, is it red wine?
Anything.
Anything.
And just like one glass of something?
Or is it once you get past a certain threshold?
If I'm gonna maybe get one, it'll make me definitely, like it really pushes it over the top.
And I thought vodka was like a safe space, but apparently, I know it was like a hopeful, you know what I mean?
That's funny, vodka is a safe space.
I read on some migraine blog or something, like they have those that alcohol can be less triggering than other alcohols, but sadly, I think I just, Mike, is it sad on your side?
I'm gonna miss alcohol.
Is it sad to be sober curious?
I mean, no, not really.
I don't miss it that much.
You know, people, I don't know, I'm not putting myself in that many situations where I can miss it, but even in the situations where I could miss it, I don't really.
I feel like it might just take me a little time to get adjusted.
Certainly, the magic cactuses and the flyers of the world to give us a little bit of something to have fun with.
Well, that counts for me, too.
Because you're not sober when you drink that.
Sober curiosity is so aggressive.
You might not be sober curious.
Oh, I'm definitely not sober curious.
All right, that said, I had a magic cactus over the weekend, and I really enjoyed that.
Yeah.
It's so nice.
I mean, I had one.
I had the Jackie Dose one.
And you're just kind of like, I felt like I didn't have it, but I did, because I was just so chill.
I was sitting by the pool, and I was drinking a Louie Louie.
And that was like the perfect amount, five milligrams of THC and CBD.
It was the ginger cucumber variety, so it was very refreshing and hot summer day.
Do you know what helps me?
I just think of all the really bad times.
Like I pin it to one really bad incident that I had when I was drunk.
And thinking about that, the time I almost lost half of my finger.
Like I was in college, and I was drunk at a party, and my coat was in a room.
And I went in to go into the room, and somebody was in there, and didn't want me in there, and slammed the door.
And I went to push the door open, just I have to get my coat.
And then I realized that my finger was caught in the door.
And I was too drunk to really know what was going on, but my roommate noticed it, and came flying through the door, knocked the other person down on the other side of the door.
We got our coats, and then we went to the hospital.
Oh my goodness.
Like dumb shit happens when you're drunk.
I've been injured many times drunk, especially in college.
I can still feel that.
It's a good point.
I once got hit by a car when I was inebriated, so there's definitely that.
Yeah, well, one time I, my motor skills are really slowed down, and I hit the open button on a door.
You know how the door slowly opens?
It takes like 15 seconds.
And I'm like, what do I do?
And I didn't move, and my toe just got stuck under the door, and I left a trail of blood all over the dorm.
All right, so pin that to your drinking experience, and you won't want to drink.
I'm putting together an anti-drinking vision board, and I appreciate both of you for material for that.
Well, in lieu of alcohol this past week, I...
Ooh, what?
Yeah, I know.
I still have my scar on my toe.
I'll have to send you a picture.
Oh, yeah, send a picture.
We'll post it in the Slack community.
I don't know if people want to see my hairy toe.
Oh, boy.
This past week, I tried Non's, N-O-N, their non-alcoholic wine.
They come in these 750-milliliter bottles.
They're absolutely beautiful.
I tried their number two that uses kombu and kalamata olive brine for minerality, roasted pears, semillon juice, and a bunch of spices.
It was so tasty.
They have five other skews that sound delicious and sort of varying whites and rosés.
It's 30 bucks per bottle.
And you know, at BevNET Live, I asked a Whole Foods buyer what he thought about the potential for non-alcoholic beverages, because there are so many people who are looking to avoid alcohol in their lives for the reasons that we just discussed.
But certainly so much of it can be expensive.
And I asked him, do you think people are willing to pay, for example, something like $30 for a non-alcoholic beverage?
He said that he had given up drinking a few years ago because he sees how his buying decisions have been impacted so much by that.
And also, of course, from the consumer data that he firmly believes there is a lot of potential for non-alcoholic and that we'll continue to see a rise in interest.
I think also the quality and the nuance in the beverage speaks for the value and the experience.
So what you just described, sounds like they put so much effort and time into making this delicious beverage.
I think people are gonna spend more money on that versus just drinking, I don't know, an orange juice.
I'm gonna play devil's advocate with you for a second here because I think it's gonna take a while for a non-alcoholic beverage to command that kind of premium.
I'm thinking of what beer used to be, and beer used to always be thought of as the cheap alcohol.
And then they start to make it more premium, and now people will pay, you know, they'll pay $50 for a bottle of super premium beer.
But I don't know, I just feel like it's gonna take a while for someone to see a non-alcoholic beverage when they're used to paying three bucks, four bucks, five bucks a can for a beverage to go to that super premium level and just like line it up with alcohol.
I have a hard time when I go to a restaurant now paying like a cocktail price for a non-alcoholic cocktail.
Because I feel like alcohol is the thing that makes it worth that amount for some reason, because I'm conditioned for that.
I think the frequency is tricky, and sort of same thing as paying $30 for a bottle of non-alcoholic wine.
Maybe once in a while, you'll spend $60 on a really nice bottle of wine, but that's more of a celebratory thing.
So in my mind, it depends on what kind of velocities these companies need to keep going, because it may not be as frequent as drinking another non-alcoholic beverage that's not positioned as such.
This is probably dumb too, but I feel like it's punishing the designated driver.
I mean, when you're also drinking beer, you're usually crushing multiple.
So you are looking for a cheaper beer because you're drinking more.
But for example, I was drinking parts over the weekend and I'm spending a little bit more money because I'm only drinking maybe one or two of that versus crushing five margaritas.
And now I'm picturing Jackie hitting that automatic door open button with the parts going.
I got this.
I got this time.
You know, one of the things that I do appreciate about about non-alcoholic beverages as much as alcoholic is that you still get condensation on your glass.
For me, one of the best things about summer is having a glass of something and getting the condensation.
To me, that's like such a such a sweet moment, especially in New England, when it's cold all the time.
So you get that no matter what.
So that's a bonus.
All of these things that we just talked about are the reason that this category is confusing because there's no like non-alcoholic beverage.
It's so many different things.
It could be a really unique tea.
It could be something that's, you know, a non-alcoholic cocktail like Gia or De Soie or Parche or something like that, or it can be a non-alcoholic wine.
And so this whole category has got to play itself out.
And I think what's going to happen is that the different niches are going to command different levels of pricing and they're going to stop calling themselves like, it's going to be specifically, this is the non-alcoholic wine category.
This is the non-alcoholic cocktail replacement category.
This is something else, you know?
And you've got your THC beverages and Melissa, your Kratums.
I tried it once.
I tried one new brew and everyone's going to think I'm a Kratum head.
Is that a thing?
Is that what you call them?
If there was one on the table right now.
Would I drink it?
I mean, I'm at work, but after I got home, totally.
Well, I will certainly be keeping my eye on the trend of non-alcoholic beverages rising in popularity.
This episode of Community Call is a collaboration with NOSH and CPG strategist, Amrit Richmond, building on NOSH's Trendlines Report, a five-part series that covers ingredient trends, distribution dynamics, the alt-meat revolution, and more.
Make sure you head to nosh.com for the five-part series.
Please enjoy this episode.
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Today on Community Call, our guest Monica Watrous, NOSH's managing editor, and Amrit Richmond, CPG strategist and founder of IndyCPG and Super Mercado, will talk about some of the top trends affecting packaged food brands today.
This is a companion piece to NOSH's Trendlines report series, available on nosh.com right now.
This tracks the evolution of these CPG trends and what the current impacts and future implications may be, so be sure to check that out on nosh.com.
Amrit and Monica, it's such a pleasure to have you here.
Thanks so much for joining me on Community Call.
Amrit, let's start with you.
I know that our audience is, I'm sure, familiar with you and what you do, but for anybody out there who's unfamiliar, can you talk a little bit about what you work on in CPG?
Sure, so I've been studying the rise of Indy brands since 2017, focused on analyzing new products, flavors, packaging, market trends.
Some of the patterns are obvious, some of them are not.
It takes several months of compounding the data to see what patterns might emerge and which will stick around.
And earlier this year, I joined the board of Secure CPG.
We are modernizing product insurance to help brands de-risk as you grow.
Thank you, Amrit.
And Monica, you, of course, are NOSH's managing editor.
Could you tell us a little bit about the NOSH Trendline series?
Well, we recognize that our readers and folks in our community are operating in an ever-changing and super-dynamic environment.
And we wanted to be able to track some of the evolutions and revolutions that are affecting the business across the scope.
So we're looking at distribution, we're looking at production, we're looking at retail and go-to-market strategy, we're looking at some of the product categories that have seen some ups and downs.
And also some of the ingredient trends we launched this series as a five-part feature on nosh.com.
Folks can check it out.
Insiders can gain full access to the stories.
One of the pieces that we wrote about was tracking the movement away from seed oils such as canola, soybean, safflower, sunflower, corn, the like to avocado oil, olive oil, even beef tallow.
We're seeing a lot of interest in some of these fats and oils that are perceived as more natural and less processed.
We also wrote about the sort of deceleration of the high-tech bleeding burger fake meat category and how consumers are demanding clean label options from their protein alternatives.
On the manufacturing side, we talked about the trend that we're seeing with more early-stage brands, self-manufacturing and moving away from outsourcing production to a coat packer.
They're seeing a number of benefits there, such as being able to innovate more quickly, doing smaller production runs, having more control over your supply chain.
We also wrote about the evolution towards more alternative distribution methods in a way from relying solely on broad line distributors like Kehi and UNFI.
And finally, we wrote about a marketing trend that tracks this sort of evolution from lifespan and longevity towards health span, which is a term that I think was coined by spins.
I hadn't seen it anywhere else, but this idea of embracing personalized nutrition using health and fitness data from your wearables, whether it's a Fitbit or an Apple Watch or a continuous glucose monitor, and eating and drinking in step with what your body needs for its best day-to-day performance.
I think all of these topics appeal to me and I'm sure everyone else in our audience, not only from a business perspective because we're all in the CPG business, but also from a consumer perspective.
And I think such a good example of that is the ingredient-focused topics that move away from seed oils.
And you named them the hateful eight in your article towards options like, as you mentioned, olive oil, beef tallow, that kind of thing.
Monica, you and I, when we were at BevNET Live, we both bought bags of Masa corn chips, which are fried in beef tallow.
And that's certainly a trend I can get on board with.
I mean, we've been hearing from organizations like Westin A Price Foundation, Sally Fallon, they were talking about this decades and decades ago.
But we still hear the American Heart Association, certainly so many dieticians I read about and see on social media are saying that seed oils are a healthy option.
So it's really tricky for consumers to understand what the truth is.
How are food brands and other food businesses adjusting the way that they're calling out these items?
The masa corn chips that we so enjoyed calls out right on their packaging, no seed oils.
Is this something that you've seen trending for a while that the brands are calling out the fact that they aren't using those hatefully?
So Mintel actually has been tracking call outs related to fats and oils on food packages.
And the number of new product launches featuring a made with olive oil claim grew by 150% between 2019 and 2023.
Those made with avocado oil claims surged 825% in that timeframe.
So a lot of brands are using the precious real estate on their packaging to communicate to consumers that the products are made with oils that are perceived as healthier.
Additionally, while they didn't track the number of products that have been reformulated, my source and analyst from Intel said that she has observed occasional reformulations with non-seed oils in a number of categories, spanning salty snacks, baby food, condiments, dips, salad dressing, ready to eat meals and plant-based protein alternatives.
But speaking with a number of brands over the past year, I've also learned from several founders about these efforts.
I talked to the founder of Hero Bread, which reformulated earlier this year their low-carb bakery products away from canola oil and replacing that with olive oil.
And that was based on hearing from consumers directly saying, I'm not gonna buy your products unless you stop using seed oil.
I thought it was really interesting in that article.
You used two sources of data.
So you used Mintel and Spins.
I saw that Julia Mills from Mintel said that only 22% of consumers say they avoid canola oil and 20% avoid sunflower.
She, it sounds like she commented that it could be a passing fad, whereas Scott Dicker from Spins disagreed.
Yeah, no, Scott thinks that it could really take off among mainstream brands and even retailers, creating whole sets and assortments of products that are made without seed oils.
But I think 22% is still a very significant number, if that's the number of folks that are claiming to avoid these oils, which are ubiquitous in the American food supply.
Nearly a quarter of consumers saying that they avoid some of these oils is a significant faction.
Whether or not it's true, whether they should be avoiding them or not, because to your point, Melissa, I've talked to dieticians who have no issues with sunflower or canola oil.
And in some cases, some studies have shown that these products are heart healthy.
My understanding is that the reason that the folks who do say to avoid them, like Dave Asprey, for example, I mean, I think I said when we were getting ready to record that if I hear him talk about the impacts of seed oils one more time and how, you know, by avoiding them, you can live to be 180, then I don't know what I'm gonna do.
But my impression is that the reason that folks are avoiding these is because they're highly processed, whereas oils such as olive oil, avocado oil, beef tallow, that kind of thing, they're less processed.
So it's hard to know what the truth is, but it'll be really interesting to watch.
And to your point, Monica, too, you know, if it's nearly a quarter of consumers who say they're avoiding them, when you think about the percentage of the American population who are shopping in stores like, you know, Whole Foods Market and Sprouts and Arowan and those kinds of outlets versus folks who are shopping mass market, I mean, those 25% are likely the targeted consumer for the brands that we're typically thinking about.
Sure, and I think, you know, going back to this idea of how processed these oils are, if you think about a lot of the products that these oils are in, those foods are considered ultra-processed.
So is the oil really a problem, or is it the product that consumers are eating with that oil?
Just out of curiosity, do you avoid them?
No.
Amrit, how about you?
I do not avoid them.
You know, I do, but I think it just, you know, I think what happened is I did the whole 30 diet, like, I don't know, 10 years ago or however long it was, and it was just one of those things that stuck in my mind.
I would say in any case, if you're reformulating, do it for the right reasons, because it's what your customers want.
And ideally it saves you money over time, but I would never redo an entire supply chain just because other people are doing it.
Make sure it's what's right for your brand.
And there's always room to look for new suppliers to de-risk your supply chain, even if you're not switching the core ingredient.
Excellent point.
So looking at some of the other topics that we cover in NOSH Trendlines here, distribution, the shift from Broadline to organizations like FAIR, Mabel, POD.
That's certainly something we're seeing so much more of.
The deductions that are incurred by Broadline distributors like UNFI and CAHI are more and more difficult to manage as inflation ramps up and the deductions ramp up, but it really is part of that business model.
Amrit, you also included another distribution option in Marty, which promotes discount grocery in a different way.
I've placed a couple orders myself out of curiosity and it appears to be that Marty is buying excess inventory.
Maybe it's the last batch of a limited edition flavor you ran earlier in the year.
I saw some holiday flavors that brands had some extra of.
It's an alternative channel, sales channel, instead of selling to somewhere like a grocery outlet or a Ross or TJ Maxx or Home Goods type store.
Marty positions the discount in a really fun way for the customer and it feels like you're shopping Amazon or another marketplace.
So all in all, I would say it's more fun for the customer than going to a store in person and filtering through a bunch of stuff to find the natural and organic products that are at a discount.
To me, it almost looks like the, I mean, not only is it online, but it also to me sort of looks like the Arowan of Ocean State Job Lot.
For anyone who's from the New England area, you're probably familiar with Ocean State Job Lot.
Certainly is terrific to give consumers a way to buy discounted items in sort of a higher end, more fun way.
Yes, and I also wanna add that if a brand is on one of these websites or at a discount store, it doesn't mean they're not doing well.
It could be that that specific zip code or region just overproduced or something went wrong at the store.
It doesn't mean anything is wrong with these brands.
I think it's great that they're diverting products from landfills or having to damage it in some other way.
So I think depending on the product and where a brand is at, you might wanna sell certain SKUs to stores like those.
I've heard of other brands having long-term relationships with some of those other discount stores.
So look into it if it makes sense for you instead of destroying the product.
There are so many reasons why a brand might work with a discount retailer.
You could be redoing your UPCs.
It could be a packaging change.
There are so many different reasons.
I got some fly-by-jing chili crisps at TJ Maxx a few months ago and was really excited to see it there.
So there are so many reasons why you might see a brand on the shelves of a TJ Maxx or an Ocean State Job Lot or with Marty.
Totally.
And at the same time, I think healthy brands in those spaces make these products more accessible.
And ideally, someone picks it up at a discount and then they end up buying it full price at Whole Foods or Air One or wherever.
But if you think about it as a, almost as like a sampling channel and not as a loss.
Absolutely.
Fly by jing is made with soybean oil.
I said I avoid them.
So I avoid them, but like Monica, you're to your point 100%.
Like I avoid them, but like if you're going to put a little bit of chili crisp on your noodles, I mean, you know, it's all about moderation too.
Right.
Like there are some places where it matters.
Like for example, like, you know, if you're, if I'm going to buy a salad dressing, like I'll try and buy one that has olive oil or avocado oil.
But like for chili crisp, if you're using a teaspoon or maybe a tablespoon, what's the difference when I would say that that's one of those cases where like it would not make sense for fly by jing to reformulate away from soybean oil, because that is so core to the taste profile and the integrity of that brand and that style of condiment.
Monica, you caught me red-handed, red-mouthed.
I don't know what it is, but yeah, 100%.
So from distribution, we moved on to production.
So the move from outsourcing to doing more of your own manufacturing.
We certainly see this with brands such as Rind, who just bought the Small Batch Organics Factory so that they can do their manufacturing in-house.
Better Bootsch, Lesser Evil, Brooklyn Cannery, Amrit, those were all brands that you mentioned when we were talking about this topic.
Self-manufacturing isn't the right path for everyone, but if you're looking for a closer relationship with your co-packer, you could find one of these brands that might be open to giving you a small production line in a much better cost in different scenarios than a really big co-packer.
So it opens up a lot of opportunity for brands that are just launching to find a partner that understands them because they're also a brand.
Absolutely.
We also see a lot of opportunity with this for co-branding and collaborations.
When you have control over your production, you can do a lot of these fun little co-brand projects and expand your brand equity to new aisles of the grocery store and to new audiences.
Like with Ouroboros and Graza.
Exactly.
From there, we moved on to healthspan versus lifespan.
Monica, in that article, I saw that you quoted Scott Dicker as saying, everyone's trying to die young just as late as possible.
And I think, you know, as we all are expecting to live a little longer, even if it's not Dave Vasper, he's 180 years old.
I think we're all expecting to live a little bit longer and want to be as healthy as possible.
And I think a lot of that comes from watching our generation of parents, the way that they live their lives and sort of what the impacts were later on in life.
I mean, certainly that's had a huge impact on me.
So focus on nutrient density, functional ingredients.
I mean, we see so much innovation and information around blood sugar.
Like I can think of three influencers who have TikTok channels, you know, devoted to tracking how their blood sugar is affected by eating certain foods.
Well, when we're talking about healthspan versus lifespan, one of the key ingredients that we've been thinking about and continue to think about in an even bigger way is protein.
It's still a key building block, and more and more brands are focusing on the amount of protein that they have in various products.
Amrit, this is something that you've been tracking.
Yes, and I love this as a customer also.
I have a joke with two friends that you don't know someone until you know what their protein gram intake is per day.
Ask your closest friends and you would be shocked.
So we're seeing it in beverages like, boom, in newer cereals, like Best Behavior.
They came to my breakfast party in LA.
Thanks again for supporting.
Letting people taste your cereal.
And obviously it's in ramen, it's in snacks, it's in almost anything that these brands can pack it into.
At first, the high protein trend over the last decade was really focused on bodybuilders and pre and post-workout, and now it's just a lifestyle product.
How do you get in a couple extra grams in between meals, in between calls when you're on the go, now that the world is all open again?
I think a lot of people try to eat more protein, but aren't counting exactly how much they have.
But if they had two choices between a product that had zero protein and one that had a little bit, it might help justify the cost and also eating it, so you're not eating an empty food.
There's a large spectrum of the type of person that would want high protein.
It also leans into some of the diets that we've been talking about, where someone is very focused on how much protein they're getting.
It could be for health reasons, where your doctor says, you got to have more of X in order to get back to the health goal that you have.
But I think the products just continue to get more fun.
Sometimes they're nostalgic, sometimes they're not.
But I love to see it in beverages and snacks and just things you can consume without having to cook them.
I certainly haven't seen cottage cheese in as many places as I have recently.
And I certainly see the protein trend appealing to at least three demographics of people that I can think of off the top of my head.
Women, especially in a later stage of life, we're seeing more and more products geared towards women who are premenopausal, menopausal.
I think because women tend to lose muscle mass during this period of time, they're being told to eat more protein.
Folks who are on GLP-1s like Ozempic, again, a loss of muscle mass means that you're being told to consume more protein.
Then folks who are, whether or not they're on a GLP-1, who are tracking their blood sugar protein, obviously has much less of an impact on a glucose spike than something like a carbohydrate.
Right there, we see three demographics of people who are probably looking to increase their protein more and more.
Then the last bucket could just be recreational use.
So what is your, if you don't mind me asking, do you have a targeted protein intake?
Mine is 50, and my friend would be really mad that I said that because he wants me to get closer to 200, but I just can't do it.
And where do you tend to get a lot of your protein from?
Mostly Greek yogurt and Italian cheeses, and I really like Happy Viking protein powder.
I've been having a Chobani key lime Greek yogurt for dessert with graham cracker crumbles, and that's helped a lot with the grams, but it fluctuates per day.
Sometimes I get more or less than that, but that's what works for me.
What about you?
Monica, how about you?
What's your targeted protein intake?
Mine's 130.
And where do you tend to get your protein from?
Egg whites, fish, lean protein.
I'm trying to put out red meats, so doing more like chicken breasts and roasted turkey.
So yeah, poultry, fish and eggs.
I don't have a targeted number, but I have been trying to up it like everybody else.
I've been really into Transparent Labs whey protein powder.
They have a pretty clean ingredient label.
They use grass-fed whey protein.
They do have natural flavors.
I'd be interested to see if this is another ingredient that we're tracking at all and whether or not consumers care about natural flavors or not.
My hunch is that it's a very small, small, small percentage of consumers who are focused on natural flavors and focused on avoiding them specifically.
But I also think I should probably take out stock in chomps because I always have at least a couple of chomps in my bag.
But same thing, lean protein, dairy, cottage cheese, that kind of thing.
So I'm sure we're in good company with our audience here.
Well, we'll certainly keep an eye on that, as well as all of the Trendlines that we talked about here from NOSH.
So again, go to nosh.com and read the Trendlines reports, fascinating information.
Amrit, are there any other Trends that you've been tracking to that we should all keep an eye on?
Yes, over the last year, but especially the last six months, I'm seeing more and more new Americana.
So it's more of a packaging trend, but I think it's playing into the simplification that you were talking about with ingredients where people just want to think less at the supermarket.
So the more they can understand it and kind of digest it before they eat it, I think a new brand has a better chance of getting in that cart and getting taken home by the customer.
So when I think of new Americana, I think of not beer, the smirking water that looks like beer, it's just water.
There's a couple of cannabis sodas that look like beer as well, and also beer companies that are leaning into nostalgia, like Rancho West or Easy Rider that recently launched.
I think it's playing into a lot of things this year.
There's an election, there's country crossover albums.
The Olympics certainly makes people get really patriotic about the Olympics.
Yes, and football season is about to start, football training is starting soon.
I think that somebody can be a Democrat and still appreciate new Americana.
It's just a cozy, simple feeling that reminds us of simpler times.
It's not about who you're voting for, unless you're choosing between two products at the supermarket.
But seeing a lot of that as a design trend, seeing a lot of musicians launch their own products or partnering with brands.
I just saw Grind Coffee did a RTD latte with Green Day's brand.
Sabrina Carpenter has an ice cream with Van Luen.
Well, I certainly yearn for the 1950s when I think coffee was 50 cents a cup.
So any look back at simpler times would certainly be interesting to me as a consumer.
We were talking a little bit about flavor trends before this call.
Our friend Nate Rosen called the orange creamsicle trend a few months ago, seeing that launch across beverages, ice creams, some products that you wouldn't expect.
Also seeing a lot of lavender use in ice cream and beverages as well.
Blackcurrant, a new brand called USO, alongside some of our favorite flavors that always launch, cherry, strawberry, coconut, s'mores, things like that.
Still seeing continued ingredient trends from the last few years, like yuzu, lychee, passion fruit, kava, and cannabis-infused products.
Happy to still see those launch, that they're delicious, but we didn't see them as much in the years before.
Well, Monica Watrous, Amrit Richmond, thank you so much for keeping an eye on the trends and helping us all stay informed on what's important now and what we should look to the future for.
So thank you both so much for joining me on Community Call and for everybody else, we'll see you next time.
That concludes another episode of the Community Call Podcast.
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