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Welcome to the Community Call Podcast.
I am Melissa Travers, Director of Community, here at BevNET & NOSH, here with my co-host Jess Infante.
If you're enjoying the show, please follow and review us on Apple Podcasts or your listening platform of choice.
Jess, it's so good to have you here.
I figured I'd change up the old banter strategy on the Community Call Podcast.
I thought it would be such a nice opportunity to start talking to everybody at BevNET, so that our community can make sure to meet all of you.
So Jess, why don't you tell our audience what it is that you do here at BevNET and BrewBound, of course, how long you've been doing it, and what your trajectory to get here has been like.
Absolutely.
Well, Melissa, thank you so much for having me.
This is so fun.
It's like a very special crossover episode.
Absolutely.
But yeah, as you mentioned, I am the managing editor of BrewBound, which is BevNET's vertical that covers the greater beverage alcohol industry, but we specifically mostly focus on beer.
But as the way the industry has changed, we've had to change our purview too.
So we cover all sorts of other things other than beer, like hard seltzers, flavored malt beverages, hard cider, canned cocktails, all sorts of stuff.
But I have been here as of last Tuesday for five years, which is crazy.
Wow, congratulations.
I feel like sirens and balloons should go off and come down.
That's amazing.
So Jess, does that mean that both Brew Bound and BevNET cover ready to drink cocktails?
Yes, it sure does.
So we work really closely with our friend and colleague, BevNET Spirits Editor, Farron Salniker, to talk about new releases in that segment.
And we don't really have any hard and fast rules about it, but obviously we run Farron's coverage.
BevNET will run stuff that we've written.
The way that I like to think about it is if it's a beer company that's launching an RTD, it would make more sense for us to run point on that story.
If it's a spirits company that's launching an RTD, then it's certainly under Farron's purview.
That's great information.
Even I didn't know that up until now.
So thanks for that.
Well, I mean, everything changes really fast around here.
Totally, totally.
In the industry and then subsequently here.
And I do just want to make sure that our audience knows, because sometimes people get a little bit confused about the difference between BevNET and NOSH and BrewBound and how they're related.
So BevNET is our parent company, of course.
And then we have BevNET, the arm itself that covers beverage.
Then we have NOSH that covers food.
And then we have BrewBound that covers beer.
And then all the other things you just mentioned.
Well, it's so great to have you here.
And you were in beer, certainly, before you were at BrewBound.
What did you do before this?
Yeah.
So before joining the team here at BevNET and BrewBound, I was at the Boston Beer Company, the brewers of Samuel Adams, but also Amguertra Twisted Tea, Truly Hard Seltzer.
They acquired Dogfish Head right before I left.
And I had a couple of different roles there, but I was there for almost nine years.
I started at the brewery as a part-time tour guide while I was in graduate school, which was really fun.
And then I moved over to the marketing department to work on the Sam Adams brand.
I worked on national campaigns for the Sam brand.
I've only ever worked on Sam.
I know everybody there kind of, some people wear different hats and do different brands, but I was just all Sam all the time.
And then after a few years in national brand management, I moved back over to the brewery in Boston to work on marketing there.
But before all of that, I was a newspaper reporter.
Well, you're certainly the perfect person for the job at BrewBound.
Did you ever get rowdy people at the tours?
Like, did anyone have to...
All the time.
So, would they just drink over the course of the tour and then like fall over at the end?
No, because the tour, I don't know what they do now.
I know they've changed it up, but the tour used to be about an hour, half of which would be spent in the tasting room and we had poured.
You ended up being able to drink about 21 ounces of beer.
But if you don't drink a lot of beer, 21 ounces in 30 minutes is...
Really something.
Well, I'm sure that gave you some important people managing skills.
Yeah, it's funny.
It's a tough job to be a tour guide, but somebody's got to do it.
Well, that's a good sort of public service announcement to everyone.
Don't forget to thank your tour guides.
Don't forget to thank your brewery tour guides.
So, you know, you and I were talking about this a bit, but there are a number of significant differences between beer and beverage.
There are, of course, some similarities.
You know, we thought it might be interesting to point out some of the big differences, starting, of course, with the three-tier distribution system.
Thanks to, you know, the Federal Alcohol Administrative Act that ended Prohibition back in 1933, all beverage alcohol producers need to sell their products to a distributor or a wholesaler.
Those words get used interchangeably, who then sell it to retailers.
So there's a three-tier system.
A brewer sells to a wholesaler, sells to a retailer, which is, you know, a bar or a restaurant or a store, a convenience store, a liquor store, all sorts of things.
So that makes the route to market a little bit interesting.
And there's something kind of unique to beer that is not really at play with wine or spirits, and that's something called franchise law.
And it's not in every state.
And there's been some reforms lately across the country.
But for example, if a state does have franchise law, a brewer working with a wholesaler, they're typically, quote unquote, married.
You know, you can't leave without getting a divorce.
So originally, it started as a way, like decades ago, to protect these small mom and pop distributor businesses.
These are mostly all really small, locally owned businesses.
And for example, Melissa's Distributor Warehouse, Melissa's biggest brand was just going to say Budweiser.
As an example, that's your biggest brand.
And these laws came into play to make sure that the big brewery could not do anything to harm the small distributor.
And in a lot of ways, the roles have kind of switched.
So there's a lot of consolidation on both sides and in both tiers.
But now there's a lot, distributors have gotten much bigger.
And breweries with the advent of the craft beer movement, you know, you could call it 40 years ago, you could call it 20 years ago, or even 10 years ago, all these different waves have changed the industry a lot.
But now there's a lot more small brewers.
So that's just something to think about when you start working with the wholesaler.
It's like the English language, like it doesn't seem like there are any hard and fast rules that you can necessarily stand by.
But it's great that we have BrewBound to help sort of figure out some of those differences and explain how things work, certainly.
You were talking about brands getting their products into retail establishments along with on-premise.
What's the retail strategy that breweries typically go after?
So most volume flows through the off-premise.
So what I assume the BevNET and NOSH crew call retail.
So that's huge for breweries.
And lately, everybody's strategy has been to focus on off-premise chains.
So chain grocery stores.
I'm sure this is the same for, you know, non-bevout food and bev.
You really want to get into chain stores.
The thing that makes that a little bit trickier is if you don't have national distribution, which a lot of craft breweries don't, you need to be making sure, like, let's say you go and sell in a placement at a multi-state chain.
You want to make sure you got distributors in every market that chain has stores in, to make sure that they have the product that can get to those retailers.
So groceries really big for craft beer, convenience stores are huge for beer in general.
And then what about liquor stores?
Liquor stores are big too, but liquor stores don't really get their data track the same way as the others.
So they're kind of a little bit trickier to get a handle on.
But like where you and I live in Massachusetts, we are what's called an independent market.
So for the most part, we can't just waltz into a gas station and buy beer there.
That's how it is almost everywhere else.
You would buy beer at the grocery store, but we have to go to a liquor store and that's where we can buy beer, wine and spirits.
In New Jersey, where I grew up, it's the exact same way.
But in New York, where I went to college, you could buy beer, wine at the grocery store, maybe wine.
I was not trying to buy wine in college.
Definitely not.
You could definitely buy beer at the grocery store.
And I think you could get wine and spirits at liquor stores.
But some states, the state runs those stores for the most part, control states like our neighbor to the North New Hampshire.
They sell beer at grocery stores, but they have state run liquor stores that sell wine in particular.
Right, right, right.
Man, yeah, you guys have to really sort of mind your P's and Q's depending on what state you're in.
Yeah.
And you also cannot pay slotting fees.
Those are illegal everywhere.
Is that a benefit to the producer because they're expensive?
Yeah, kind of.
I mean, I think you've got to make that investment one way or the other.
So I'm sure it all comes out in the wash, but you're not allowed to do that.
You're not allowed to do what's called giving something of value to a retailer.
So let's say you have Melissa's beer brand and your new fall seasonal beer is out.
You couldn't go on your social media and say, Melissa's fall seasonal beer is now available at Jess's bar.
That'd be illegal.
You'd have to say, check out the beer finder on our website to figure out where you can get our new fall seasonal beer.
Well, that was certainly helpful in helping all of us understand what retail strategy looks like.
What does the investment landscape look like right now?
Craft beer in particular is going through a really rough time.
If you would ask me this question like 10 years ago, I think you'd get a very different answer.
There used to be like a really active M&A situation in craft where the larger brewers were acquiring craft brewers that they thought had bigger potential.
Some of those deals worked out really well, some of them didn't, some of them were unwound pretty quickly.
And what we're seeing right now is a lot of consolidation, particularly among smaller brewers, more teaming up with each other than anything else.
because the thing is that nobody really talks about investment.
This is not a thing.
For example, Athletic, which is a large, nationally distributed, non-alcoholic craft beer brand, they will take on investment and they will issue press releases about it and really talk about it.
And they've had several really successful rounds of tens of millions of dollars.
But nobody really gets that kind of money anymore and nobody really talks about it.
There's a lot more mergers and acquisitions than there is large scale investment.
Any interesting mergers and acquisitions happening?
I am so glad you asked that because right here in our home state, we are, you know, as we record this on Tuesday afternoon, my team is working on a story about a merger or an acquisition really between two of the largest craft brands in mass, which is, you know, Jax Abbey, their parent company of Henle family brewing, is working on a deal to acquire Night Shift Brewing.
Wow.
And this is a really interesting situation because as craft trends slowed down, the market got a lot more difficult following the pandemic.
Craft brewers were getting really creative in terms of how they could support each other.
So a couple years ago, these two breweries, Jax Abbey and Night Shift, had announced that Jax was going to take over all of contract production for Night Shift, which makes sense.
Contract brewing is really interesting because it used to have a bit of a stigma going back like 20, 30 years, but today it's really common.
It just makes sense.
Brewing equipment is really expensive.
It's really difficult to make beer, to make beer, to ship beer.
So if you've got a brewery that's sitting idle, a couple shifts of the day, really, it's just if you can get somebody else who wants you to make their beer for them, do it.
Similarly, if you don't have a brewery and there's somebody else that you can pay to make your beer, do that.
Just huge.
So I want to say it must have been in 2022 that this, you know, Night Shift announced that they were going to stop production at their own brewery outside of Boston and Everett Mass.
The building just wasn't really like set up for what they needed and it would have taken a lot of money to, to renovate it, to meet their needs.
So Jax Abbey said, hey, we'll make your beer for you.
So they've had this deal going together for a while.
And it just makes sense for them to finally complete this, this marriage, I guess.
But yeah, but that's just like a great example of what craft brewers have been doing lately to, to really kind of like martial resources in these really challenging times.
Makes perfect sense and definitely super interesting to any folks who live in the New England area.
because those are two, you know, certainly big names that we hear and see and drink all the time.
So thanks for that little, that little sneak peek into what's going on.
Yeah.
If you're an emerging beer brand, where do you go for help?
I mean, it's, it seems like a very complicated landscape.
You know, things are different state to state.
Are there any resources that you can provide for folks who are looking for a little help?
Yeah, absolutely.
So state and like local guilds are huge, huge resources for anybody just starting out.
But so is the Brewers Association.
The Brewers Association is the national trade group that represents small and independent craft breweries.
And they work really hard on providing education, data, information to their members.
But shameless plug, I think you can learn a lot at brewbound.com.
Definitely.
And for any folks who want to submit news, it's news at brewbound.com.
Excellent.
And then also even self, you can use our self-service PR portal to get your news right up there on the newswire.
Couldn't be easier than that, right?
It could not.
Even if you were Samantha from that, what was that show where she was a witch and she would twinkle her nose to make something happen?
The witch.
Yeah, the witch.
It's easier than if Samantha did it for you.
And then one last shameless plug, you can also join our Slack community, slack.bevnet.com to reach all of us here at BevNET & NOSH.
Ask your questions, see what's coming up.
We would love to see you there.
Well, if you're an emerging food or beverage brand and you need help getting into Target, Le'Spencer Walker, director at Target might just be your man.
Le'Spencer oversees Target's accelerators, activation and growth, and spends his time supporting emerging brands.
Yasmin Sajadi, CEO of Mazah, joins Le'Spencer to discuss Mazah's experience getting into Target, how they're positioning themselves for success, and their careful rollout approach, along with key metrics for evaluating performance.
Please enjoy.
On today's Community Call, we have Le'Spencer Walker, Director at Target.
Le'Spencer oversees Target's accelerators, activation, and growth program that helps emerging brands thrive on shelves.
We also have Yasmin Sajadi, CEO of Mazah, a brand that makes vibrant, tangy, Afghani-inspired sauces.
We have a great show for you today.
Yasmin and Le'Spencer, thank you so much for joining.
This is gonna be so much fun.
Ah, thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Such a pleasure.
Yasmin, let's start with you and Mazah.
Please give us an intro to the brand you make.
I mean, I think the most amazing chutneys I've ever had in my life.
The aiolis are amazing, family-run business inspired by your mom's cooking.
Can you kind of set us up and help walk us through how and why Mazah came to be?
Totally.
We're first-generation Afghan-Americans.
I'm based in Minneapolis, Minnesota.
I have a really big family.
I'm one of 55 cousins.
And my family gets together almost every single weekend, and it's always about the food.
What are we going to eat?
And my family, that's just how we show love to each other, right?
It's cooking for each other.
It's spending time in the kitchen, teaching each other recipes.
My sister and I consider ourselves as foodies, but we're like, what should we do with our lives?
We had our normal nine-to-five jobs, and we're like, should we do a food truck?
Should we do a catering company?
We weren't crazy enough to have a restaurant or anything.
And one day we had my mom's delicious cilantro and ginger chutney and a light bulb just went off.
We were like, oh my God, this is it.
We have to bottle this and share it with the world.
And that was like in the spring.
And then that summer we were making it in her kitchen, 25 tiny jars at a time, taking it to the farmer's market and just introducing people to mom's chutney.
And that's how it started.
It has been a labor of love since.
The first season we did like three farmer's markets.
And then after that, it kind of built up from this weekend side hustle that we did like once a month to twice a month, Friday, Saturday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, until I was like, okay, I think this is something.
I think we got to take this into retail.
And I think we all met our first Expo West last year.
And that was the turning point for Mazaah, I think, when we started introducing it kind of outside of our smaller community.
It must have been such an amazing experience to have so many people trying the product that you've worked so hard on.
And we're here today to talk a little bit about your journey to Target and what the launch looks like so far.
Your journey to Target wasn't necessarily a direct one, which I think is actually really interesting and helpful for other brands to know.
You pitched more than once and then became reacquainted with Target.
But could you help us understand what your journey with Target was and how you sort of finally found yourself talking about having Target bring the product in?
Yeah.
So when we started looking at retail partners, it was in the middle of the pandemic.
So you're just trying to do everything from behind a computer, right?
We signed up for a diversity pitch day that Grow North, that's now naturally Minnesota, was hosting with Target.
And we got to pitch a group of Target buyers, not our buyer, but a group of Target buyers.
And I think after that pitch, I emailed everybody on the link, getting something to go calendar, and was like, okay, gonna ask to forward my deck to all of these people.
And just kept trying to follow up through the course of the year.
And I don't know what kind of internal conversations were happening at the time or anything, but just really trying to introduce the brand, keep people aware of our progress, how we were building our products, use other retailers that we were launching into, how we were doing on shelf, what other cool media hits or other opportunities that there were to get our brand out there.
And then we all got reacquainted at Expo West.
And for us, that was like another deep COVID moment of like, what are all of the resources in CPG that we could try to take advantage of?
And at the time, Included Access was doing their applications for the inaugural Expo West cohort.
So we applied for that.
And that's how we got to the show actually, was through that program.
And they provide a spot, they provide a booth, a hotel, free passes, and they pick 10 emerging BIPOC women-owned brands to show up at Expo West and get to show off your product.
Included Access, would you mind just quickly, oh, well, Spencer?
I was going to say, she's downplaying a lot here, because not only is she at Expo West, she was on the pitch slam competition stage and won.
And that's really like the notoriety, the rewards, like she's downplaying it a bit, but she showed up and she showed out.
And I think that grew the attention of retailers like Target.
She was on our radar before, but this helped push that moment.
I think as you think about where you're going to show up, whether it's a trade show or a pitch slam, people are watching.
And so when you do your best, it's going to be seen.
So don't want you to forget that.
And then also that 55 people going on your house, I was going to say, what holidays do y'all have all these people at?
But if it's happening on Saturday and Sunday, you got 55 taste testers, like that's amazing.
So yes, your product tastes good, because you got 55 people saying yes or no.
But I didn't want to go further.
You're not saying that.
You did a great job in showing up, and I think founders need to hear that.
Put yourself out there.
You never know who's watching.
Yasmin, could you quickly explain the Included Access program?
Who is that provided by?
Yeah.
So Included Access is a group of CPG, other BIPOC, either they have their CEOs of their own companies or their service providers or something, they all kind of came together to get more inclusion and access to trade shows.
So they worked with Informa and all the different groups that put the shows on to be able to provide these opportunities.
So I believe it started in that was like the first year for Expo West for us.
But they also do a program at the Fancy Food Show in New York, at the Fancy Food Show in Las Vegas.
And it's just truly like an incredible resource for brands that are trying to get access to the shows, or trying to get access to different resources, how to grow your business.
You can join the Slack and honestly ask any question.
And there's 10 people that are like, yeah, I've gone through the same thing.
Here you go.
Here is the cheat codes of how to get from point A to point B.
And for us getting the opportunity to go to Expo West and have someone foot the bill and just be able to show the products on that stage and on that platform was a huge game changing moment for us.
When we got the email that said that we got in, we're like, okay, how do we make the most of this opportunity?
Like, how do we create a buzz around Mazaah while we're there?
We applied for the next year, we sent off press releases, we tried to create a lot of momentum before we got there to just see how it would go for us.
because we thought, okay, this is our shot.
If we don't exist by the end of the year, we're not going to be able to pay for a booth next year.
This is the moment for us.
Then the pitch slam was insane.
I truly, still, I'm like, holy shit, we won that?
That's awesome.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Bravo.
Thank you so much for explaining that.
I'm sure that'll help a lot of other brands.
Le'Spencer, can you take us behind the scenes?
I feel like this is a rare opportunity to hear from Yasmin, what they were putting forward.
What does it look like on the retailer end?
What makes you stop at a booth?
What is it about a pitch like the one that Mazaah had that gets your attention?
Take us inside the retailer's mind.
Yeah, it's a pretty fun experience.
And working at Target with United, you know, minds that are looking for authentic, diverse, emerging, because we want to make sure we're providing the best for our guests.
We call them our guests at Target because we invite them into our store.
And they're also consumers.
But we want to make sure that they're seen, they're heard, they feel belonged.
I would say three things.
There's always three things in terms of retail readiness.
If you're able to manufacture a product in good quality, logistically get it somewhere on time, and then market to the humans to bring humans in to buy it and have numerous transactions, that's great.
Data will show up.
But then there's the art and science part.
That's kind of like the science, but then the art is like, who are the founders?
And I think that's why I enjoy this role so much because if I work with our merchants, I work with other supplier diversity captains across the enterprise.
But getting to meet Yasmin and her sister and kind of hearing their story and seeing their story, that's what we're looking for.
Not only brand owners who started something, whether it's in their kitchen or they had a problem and they found a solution and they want to provide it to the world.
That's what drives good brands.
That's what drives good human centric brand stories.
But also if you got the data and the capabilities to back it up, that's what makes good opportunities come to life.
And so at the Accelerators team, we made sure to build something called the supplier intake farm to not only just say, I'm going to shoot my shot in the dark, but we're also going to be able to build something that's going to make a difference in the future.
Now, whether there's a team on the other side who's reviewing this information and saying, hey, I see that brand growing or program, we have two programs, whether it's forward founders or takeoff, what would be best aligned to help them get that opportunity when they have the capabilities and they're viable and they're strategically aligned?
Now, my team is on shelf, so like me and Yasmin got some more work to do as we think about her launch or scale and continuing to grow, but we're catering to the founder through each step in their journey.
But going back to your original question, we're looking for the art and science.
Who has the data to say we're performing on shelf or online?
Well, maybe at other retailers, because I say retail success is retail success.
How do we make that a target partnership success story?
But also, who is behind the scenes?
Who is pulling the story together?
Who's really putting in the hours?
because that's where the partnership exists.
It's the relationship between the people.
I may be a busy person, but I try to stay in contact with our partners because that's what's special.
And Target wants to bring that special kind of feeling and sauce to the store.
And so we need brands like Mazaah and others like that who are showing up authentically.
Could you explain any of the programs that Target does have, if there's a diversity aspect to your brand, if you're an emerging brand, what are some of the things folks out there should look for?
Yeah, I kind of sprinkled that in there and I was like, four founders, take off.
But our scope is diverse, emerging-owned brands.
And as we look at the supply diversity industry, like mentioning we're going to NMSCC National Conference in about four weeks, but we're diving in and being the sneeze or the point of contact at Target to say, how do we support and drive equity across the experience, but also support brands to grow them and retain them on shelf, but also just help them reach their goals.
because we know that's such an underserved opportunity.
We support FMB and EMB, but we know that it's a bigger issue across the entire industry.
So plugging in with supplier diversity experts, getting certified to enable us to tell your story at the most risk adverse level, but also just making sure that you have the products and ready to go.
And so that's our scope is supporting and driving good programming, retail one-on-one programs, but also the playbooks and understanding what it takes.
I always say this when I'm on calls, like the brand canvas model is one of those like first steps.
I always say fill out each one of those nine boxes and understand who's your key resources, who are your key segments, what is your key retail price.
And if you have numerous people in those boxes, that's great.
If you're having like one or two in each one of those boxes in six months, things are going to change.
Your business is going to evolve.
And so making sure that you have all those partners in place, but also going to trade shows enable you to meet more partners, more like minded partners, but also brands to Mazaah's point, and other brands who are doing the same thing.
You can find that community.
And then if Target taps into that community, hopefully we can do great business together.
And is all the information about Target's programs, is there a vendor information page that folks should go to?
Yes.
Supplier intake forum not only helps us gather, but there's also the Target Accelerator's website as well.
There's a forward-facing one.
We have our YouTube site out there as well with different webinars that we recorded.
We're out there.
The Accelerator team is out there trying to not only spread the encouragement of proper partnership, but also understanding if there is a human on the other side of Bitcoin.
And so how do we tap into that and not just make it transactional, but make it actually an experience and a journey.
And the journey is only as valuable as you grow during that journey.
So hopefully we're providing the information to help you grow during that journey.
Well, I'm sure there are so many brands that think that that's helpful.
I know sometimes it does feel like the Wizard of Oz.
There's, you know, there may be someone behind the curtain.
Yasmin, I see that you linked the Included Access link.
Thank you for doing that.
It's includedcpg.com, so folks can head over there.
I would love to hear, Yasmin, what was your submission process?
And when did you find out that you were going to be accepted at Target?
Yeah, I think we met March and had some follow-up calls in April.
And then we were talking about the rollout plans like that October-November for 2024.
Yeah, October 2024, November, and we started rolling out in January.
Yes, it took two years, but that's very fast in CPG.
Very true, because sometimes we're looking a year in advance.
And so you show up in March, you probably don't kind of set for another eight months.
So we have time to get things in order, whether it's the manufacturing piece, logistic partners.
Like, you can go deep into that because you know the manufacturer.
It was a scramble for sure.
I think it's very like, oh, it's happening.
OK, let's go.
We were in the process of scaling up with co-manufacturer and just had to decrease the time on to get them up and running.
But it was definitely a Christmas miracle to get everything on board on that timeline, for sure.
We, in the background, have been doing a lot of commercialization and food science stuff on our end because it's mom's recipe, right?
Like it has been her recipe all of this time.
And then when you go to commercialize it, you want it to be the most consistent every single time.
Right.
So in the background, we were doing a lot of research and worked with a food consultant and a food scientist to talk about identifying all of the inputs.
What makes good cilantro?
What makes bad cilantro?
How should the ingredients all come into the co-packer?
What's the quality parameters of each skew?
Like what's acceptable?
What's not?
So we were able to move really quickly with that process, but it was definitely a Christmas miracle for sure.
I think everybody just was really hungry and really wanted it to happen.
I think our manufacturing partner and everybody kind of working on the project was like, yes, this is the biggest opportunity ever.
Like we have to make this happen.
And I think when you have a team that believes in what you're doing, you can honestly make anything happen.
I read in your brand story that your mom doesn't measure anything.
It sounds like that's changed drastically.
It's a force of hand, yes.
Now, we still do have to stop her when we're doing bench testing and stuff, or we have to watch really closely because she'll be like, it needs more salt.
And we're like, mom, I measure it first.
I love it.
Why do you think Target accepted Mazaah's products?
I think it's offering something truly unique, right?
And authentic new flavors to customers.
I think our branding has also always like punched above its weight.
Like people think that we're a lot bigger than we are a lot of the time, which when you have a polished brand and a really good brand story and a really good product line, I think that really does get the attention of big retailers, right?
Like you want to be able to put your best foot forward when you do get in front of Target or when you do get your chance to go to Expo West.
So I think all the bells and whistles and the polish of the brand really made us stand apart.
Well, Spencer, I'm sure you have some thoughts on that question.
Yeah, I can go back to the art and science piece, but not to belabor that.
But I think you hit it.
It was authentic flavors.
We understand that people are looking for a new, different or just evolving their flavor palette in their meals.
And so seeing something as accessible as Mazaah really turned me on to it as well and said, oh, let me try this.
It's restaurant quality.
Like when you think about when you're going and getting a platter of dips and you taste that actual freshness and the ingredients that pop, that's what sticks.
So if someone tries it once, they come back for more.
And so the flavor, the quality, but also the branding, like she's not kidding.
Punching above their weight is one thing, but also the beauty that I've seen from their commercial with her and her sister, we're talking with her mom.
Like there's a lot of elements in there that people can see themselves in the familial piece.
So sometimes I also say like, don't shy away from the story because the story is what's going to connect with people.
And humans want and strive for connection.
And so how might we let the brand connect with others?
And then you back it up with that great flavors.
It's a one win.
You see so many founders and brands come across your desk, I'm sure.
What are some of the green flags that pop up in your mind when you see something to know whether or not, yes, this is ready to take in or no, not now, or maybe just no?
I'll break it into three pieces visually, as you think about packaging or the branding piece.
Knowing that whether it's on shelf or even online, you got five seconds, and maybe seven if they're, you know, hesitating.
Five seconds to convince someone to move differently than what they have chosen before.
And so how do you make sure that the packaging is clear?
It's eye-grabbing, it's popping, but also not too overwhelming, but just tells you what you're getting and communicating that.
Second, as we think about business, there's also the business side.
That'll be like the next follow-up question.
Where are you selling?
How are you selling?
What is your productivity numbers?
What are your performance numbers?
How many units are you selling per week?
Those are the things that are going to indicate how well mass market opportunities are suited for you.
Mass retail is a journey.
To get to that spot, it's a marathon before it's a sprint.
And so as you think about getting yourself ready for that sprint, getting on shelf is a completely different marathon too.
And so being able to endure that and have the data to back it up.
And then lastly is how are you marketing the brand currently today?
Whether it's social media, whether it's guerrilla tactics, or being able to just acquire a new guess.
And I'll say this, Target has tons of brands and there's a lot of campaigns happening at once.
And you're going to have to market on your own sometimes, but that's where teams like mine exist to say, hey, let's make sure to include this brand during summer, when we're thinking about grilling.
Let's include this brand during holiday season to have that authentic flavor in your house.
But there's an off season that you're still going to have to market and you're still going to have to generate people to come and buy too.
So how is your business plan set up to bring more transactions in?
So if you have those three things kind of rolling and whether at a trade show and I walk by the table, I might have those questions ready to fire off.
If you don't have the data, sometimes that's a clear sign, but that doesn't mean it's not forever.
Let's say you go back a year from now, you have the data to back it up.
That's good progress.
Maybe you got into Costco or you got into Whole Foods or other retailers are also seeing it too.
Like I said, retail success is success.
So how might we enable you to scale and grow properly as a target partner?
Yasmin, we just heard a little bit more about why Mazaah was accepted onto Target's shelves.
How many stores are you launching in?
We're in 150 Target locations.
And I was just going to ask you, so behind the scenes, what have you done and what are you doing to get all the product?
Are you finding that you're actually getting the product to where it needs to go?
Is that a smooth process?
It can certainly be a difficult process, but how is that going?
I think that's almost been the easiest part of the whole thing.
Target makes it really easy to ship it directly to them, or whatever you negotiate in how you get your product from A to B, there's a lot of support in that sense.
So for us, that part of the operations was pretty streamlined since the beginning.
At our launch, we actually celebrated this milestone with our local community here in Minneapolis.
So we did a really big Target launch party with 200 of our people, like farmers market customers, other brands, everybody that was just kind of like in our ecosystem to kind of kick off this really big moment for Mazaah.
And I think since then, we've tried different tactics along the way to like help amplify our story and help drive customers to buy our product off the shelf at Target, right?
We did a lot of local press, different podcasts, different radio shows.
Like, I think we're on ABC, CBS, like all the local TV stations to try to get more awareness on the brand and more people buying off shelf.
It's definitely like you have to win at home first with this type of retailer because we're also selling in Midwest and Southern California.
And when we went to go visit a few stores out there, we're like, okay, not every Target is created equal.
This is really different.
Like Minnesota, that was like my moment where I was like, wow, I am like a true Minnesotan.
I shop Target for everything and not everybody across the country does that.
Like that was the first time that I was like, what?
You don't go to Target every day for like groceries, diapers, cardigans.
The way that Minnesota shops Target is like very different than the rest of the country, which Le'Spencer, I'm sure you have tons of thoughts on that.
I won't go deep into it, but as you think about like segmentation or localization, I always call it aiming small and missing small.
You know, that 50 stores to 100 stores, 100 stores to 200 stores, making sure that you can scale appropriately because to your point, not everybody shops the same in other states, whether it's 200 miles away or even 10 miles away.
So how might you show up and make sure that you drive success is key.
And having that kind of information to help that decision, that's where the partnership really comes to life.
And who chooses which stores a brand like Mazaah would launch into?
Kind of going off of what I said, like if there's comparable data, that's going to be helpful.
I always talk about D to C information.
If you are shipping products to a certain state, make sure to speak that when you're talking to your retail partners, especially we have 2,000 stores across America.
So how might we do our best to set you up for success?
But you should weigh in too.
Kind of a discussion in the markets that we were already in.
So we were already in Southern California and a few co-ops and kind of spending some marketing dollars there and kind of building our brand awareness there.
And then it was just overall like demographic and tests typical for this category.
So it was kind of a joint conversation of strategy.
We have a question from lauren Otto.
She wants to know, what marketing tactics did you use to make the launch successful at Target?
There was a lot of PR, a lot of social media, a lot of truly just like letting our supporters know that we were there.
So we did some content in store, tried to boost as much as we could on social media.
And then in store, we had like a really aggressive promotional plan.
Like I think we did a two for ten or two for eight right off the gate just to try to engage trial.
And I believe at the time that we launched the sampling program was not back.
But that's typically what we would do with a new retailer within the first quarter is run a sampling program.
And all of those tactics, like those are just all levers that you can pull, right?
Like you try a target circle coupon at 10 percent, and then the next quarter you try it at 15 percent, and you see which one got you better results, or if it's the same, then why give 15 percent next time?
Just give 10, right?
So it's just been a year of learning what we have in our tool belt to use, and then how to use them, and how to drive the best velocities on shelf.
And are there any tactics that you found do work particularly well?
Is the circle coupon giving you more results than something else?
I think circle is great as an avid circle person.
I think on store, like the target tag is probably the most powerful for a new emerging brand is try to keep your dollars close to your product.
Target influencers can also work well.
I think it just depends on who they are, what your budget is, what the following is, how micro do you want to go.
But I would say that the target tag is probably the most powerful.
I'd also recommend getting insights from consumers, whether surveys or yes, download the Target app and try it out for yourself.
But ask others how easy is it to shop?
And how do you compare against other options on the site in the store?
because you'll learn a lot.
Don't ask the 55 people of your family every time.
Ask the people outside of the box and say like, honest opinion, would you pick this over this?
It'll help drive clarity on what you're missing, what your opportunities are, but also just good feedback to build a good strategy for the next quarter.
And is there a minimum marketing strategy that you typically recommend to emerging brands when they're launching, just to make sure they're getting that initial push?
Nothing minimum, but what is doable and manageable?
because it will come at a cost, whether it's time or actual financial dollars.
So make sure you can handle it as well, because you want to make sure you're also managing your logistics and manufacturing too.
So no minimum, just do what's right.
And that's why I think the surveying and understanding your customer and consumer is very important, because if you market a certain way in an area that they're not, it's not going to have the return that you thought it would.
Thanks for the question, lauren.
That was a great one.
I wanted to talk a little bit about pricing.
Yasmin, how did you determine what pricing would look like for Target?
In the beginning of getting our product on retail shelves, we gave ourselves a little bit of room on price with our margin because we knew things would go wrong, right?
So we've always been priced a little bit more premium.
So I think we came in at $8.99 originally at Target.
And then as we rolled out into Target, we were also working with other retailers about placements and rollout.
So in the time that we launched in Target, we also are testing in Costco in the Bay Area stores and launching in Whole Foods nationally this quarter.
So in that time, I think it's been about six or seven months since we launched at Target.
Just with all of this happening for Mazaah at the same time, we've been able to swing into a larger coman, get better MLQs, get better volume pricing, and offer a lower price.
So we are now at $7.49 at Target, which feels really great because now we get to be a little more competitive in the set.
That was also feedback from our buyer that was like, hey, you are the priciest product in my set.
How do we get your price down?
What does your supply chain look like?
How do we figure this out together?
We just told them our plans coming up and what kind of opportunities that we had and made the decision to do that.
This month actually, I think it's the first month of a new lower price.
Very exciting.
Congratulations.
Thank you.
You talked a little bit about distribution and how that was maybe one of the easiest parts of the launch.
Well, Spencer, could you lay out how Target works distribution?
How does that whole piece of a launch rollout?
Yeah, chime in, Yasmin.
As you think about to store, one of the biggest strategies we implemented was ship from store.
So if anybody has drive up or you have ships and they bring it to your house, we have, like I said, 2,000 stores so they can be leveraged like logistic distribution centers.
We obviously have the traditional warehousing centers as well that you ship your product to.
But if you're able to get it to the stores in a well-packaged manner, that also is an opportunity to get it to another guest.
And so we remain guest-centric and making sure that we're doing this right by the people who shop at Target.
So if we can get something to you quickly because we're shipping it from a store, that's the benefit.
So as you think about launching, there's also brands that are just online only, and you manage that shipping yourself, or you do ship it from our warehouse.
So there's numerous ways to do it.
I think as an engineer by trade, industrial systems engineering, the logistics part is very well done over here and understanding how do we eliminate waste, how do we get things somewhere quickly and efficiently, but also effectively in the hands of our guests, numerous ways to do that.
So excited to hear how you and your launch went as a food program.
So for us, our products are refrigerated, so cold chain, right?
Which I think Target does really well.
And on our side of things, we're going direct.
We're not using any distributor with Target.
And that's where I think the simplicity comes from it is it's our relationship with Target and someone else isn't managing or kind of like in charge of that inventory.
And just where we are geographically and what we can service and how our manufacturing is set up in the Midwest and the West Coast and where the warehouses are, it just works really seamlessly.
But I know that that may not come as easy for other brands.
So I think if you don't have that expertise on your team or if you need additional support on that, it's definitely something that you want to figure out prior to because you are going to get those questions of, yeah, we love this, but how are you going to get it here?
Yes, the least entertaining part of the job.
That's why I like the top three in logistics and manufacturing.
Not everybody loves it and gets into it, but if you can't make it and get it places, that's a big piece.
Are you online as well?
We are not.
We are not online.
Was that a choice?
How did that work out?
Yeah, I think just as a brand and kind of all of the momentum we were getting in retail, it was more of where do we put our energy right now, right?
And it's been a very amazing journey into retail.
So we haven't really been touching DTC or online right now, but maybe in the future, for sure.
You had mentioned that in California, you were already set up in some co-ops and maybe some other stores in the area.
Are you finding that consumers are introduced to the product at like a co-op or like an indie, that kind of thing, and then they see it on the shelf at Target and they already know what it is?
Or do you find that they're discovering it at Target, or is it a total mashup of both?
I think it's definitely a mashup of both, for sure.
I think people are discovering new products in so many amazing different ways right now, and I think that's why it's so cool to be in CPG, right?
I don't have any like famous influencer cousins or anything like in my dual belt, but just, I mean, I wish, but building a brand like this and just seeing it catch fire in different communities or seeing it make an impact or like have someone email our hello at Mazaah and be like, I just picked this up.
This is amazing.
Or this is exactly like my mom's chutney.
All of that feels like really amazing and special and wonderful.
As far as like discovery, I think there's so many different tactics that you can do to introduce people to your product.
I think it starts with just continuing to tell your story, continuing to show up on the shelf where your customer or where your community shops because it's in Indie, it's Target, it's Costco for toilet paper in La Croix probably, and then maybe they see that there's a two pack of your product there or something.
So it's kind of like a constant staying in front of them and kind of engaging into your community.
We're just in the beginning of truly understanding what that means.
I think for us, this last 2024 into retail, what we learned is people are so connected with the story of Mazaah and the authenticity and the roots of our family.
And that's one of the main reasons why we decided to do a rebrand and why we were like, OK, we we love the packaging.
We're getting great feedback on the packaging, but it's also not telling the whole story of Mazaah and how can we be stronger in retail?
Like, why are people compelled?
And that's kind of what instigated us being like, OK, we've got to change the packaging that and make it work harder for us because it takes a lot to get on the shelf.
So all of our new rebrand will be launching later this year in October.
I'm like looking at the calendar.
I'm like, oh, yeah.
It feels like tomorrow in just a couple of weeks.
Well, Spencer, what do you like to see for emerging brands?
Do you like to see that they're kind of already set up in some Indies and other places around where they're going to launch?
Or does it not matter and totally expect that perhaps consumers will discover the product at Target for the first time?
Yeah, I like the capability to be the root of it because you want to remove subjectivity.
If you're capable, that opens up the doors of opportunity.
Then we discuss viability.
So when I say capable, it may include revenue, it may include what stores you're in because that will tie back to your logistics and being able to afford how you market.
So going back to the that's why it's not a black hole because that information is actually very helpful for us to advocate and understand and assess who is viable, who is capable.
But then also think about the strategic alignment because things will move fast to your point with Mazaah.
You engaged in one month, which is four months later, like that was aggressive timing, but sometimes it may take eight months.
It may take a full calendar year for the strategy to align.
And that also gives you another eight months to build your capabilities.
And so that's why I call it a marathon.
If you're in another retailer and it seemed like it's great, keep doing that great work.
If you're not in another retailer, but you got the capabilities, you're looking for that jump off moment.
It could be Target, but it may also be eight months before that.
So the patience, time, time is always going to be the denominator.
How do we make sure that we don't fight against time and let time be on our side?
And money too, I'm sure.
Oh, and funding is a big piece too.
Yasmin, can you give us a little foreshadowing and tell us what your plans for expansion might be as we're kind of coming up on 2025?
Yeah, we have our new lentil dip line launching at the end of this year.
So we're really excited to put those out into the world.
There's a lemon tahini, roasted red pepper, jalapeno, basil, and a turmeric ginger.
And this is kind of a twist on our mom's dal recipe, but in a dip form.
So we're really excited to get those out into the world.
Those will be launching here locally, like in our local Independence and Lunds & Birley's here in Minneapolis, and then launching further in 2025.
So excited to get those out in the world finally.
Melissa, you've tasted them so many times.
My mouth is watering here.
It's very challenging to not have that come out on camera.
That's going to be very exciting.
And then are you going to stick with the stores that you have now for Target?
Are you thinking about rolling out into more?
That's the plan right now, is sticking to the stores right now and continuing to build and learn.
It's truly like a new muscle that you have to learn how to use.
Like each retailer has different milestones that you have to reach and different opportunities that you can engage their marketing teams in different data and different insights.
And you have to, as the brand owner, take advantage of them and get really good at doing business with them before you can grow or expand or introduce a new line or anything like that.
Well, Le'Spencer, we've certainly heard so much about Mazaah's story and you, again, work with so many brands in your role.
What's the advice that you could share for brands, whether they're submitting to Target, whether they're on shelf and looking to grow their business?
What are some of the things and some of the advice that you find yourself saying over and over to the brands that you work with?
I'll try to pull it all together because each brand, each category, it's all different.
But as you think about foundationally, aiming small and missing small.
because if you want to be in all stores and your dreams to be a Target, it comes with a lot of different things.
So understand scaling and achieving something.
Sometimes those are the expectations, whether it's sales or if it's actual movement off the shelf.
Know what you're marching towards.
So always ask someone, all right, great, I'm glad we have this partnership.
What do you expect of me?
To piggyback off of that, brands that are willing to bring their strengths to the table, speak their authentic story, keep their capabilities rolling, but reviewing their capabilities and reviewing their business plan, whether it's quarterly.
We do it at Target, so we try to find brands who are thinking the same way.
How can I be better?
How can I innovate?
How can I bring newness?
because that's what's going to keep you not only on shelf, but innovating and driving new customers to find your brand.
And then lastly, authenticity and showing up.
I always say this, like don't email every day, but authentically show up, email with the question and know that and have empathy that there's a lot going on, but showing up is going to be key and receiving the feedback when it's given and just being real with yourself and saying, all right, I gotta make some pivots.
I always say when people have a brand or start a company and like, this is my baby, sometimes your baby may have to change.
And being so tied to that baby, you don't make any changes, could make or break your scaling and hitting those goals quarter over quarter.
So just being transparent on running your business efficiently, effectively, authentically, but also knowing the data will show up and that will drive success.
Great advice.
I see you gave an answer to Kim.
Kim wanted to know if you went through the certification to be a woman owned business.
Did you?
Yes, we did.
We did that, I believe in 2023, and it's 100% worth it.
You get your shelf fees waived at some retailers or placement fees waived at some retailers.
You also can take advantage of really great marketing opportunities when you do get the WeBank certificate.
Like if you have a distributor partner like UNFI or Cahee, you get to be kind of included in a lot of different marketing programs that they have to highlight women or highlight BIPOC owned brands.
I think a lot of the certification boards also have fees.
I think our fee was like $300, but we got a sponsorship route from it and they paid for half of it.
It's a beast of application.
You definitely need like one or two days to get all of the pieces of paperwork uploaded and everything done, but it's 100% worth it.
And just remember to renew it every year.
Great question, Kim.
Great answer, Yasmin.
I can't thank you both enough for joining today.
Yasmin Sajadi, CEO of Mazaah, Le'Spencer Walker at Target.
Thank you both so much for joining and explaining everything that you explained today.
Thanks so much and we'll see you next time.
That concludes another episode of the Community Call Podcast.
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